March Badness: Proof MMA and Boxing Don’t Mix (Editorial)
When Affliction teamed up with Goldenboy Promotions and started talking about doing hybrid Boxing/MMA events, many in the MMA world voiced their feelings that this was a bad idea. Roy Jones Jr., I guess, didn’t read about that, so he decided to have his promotional company, Square Ring Promotions, beat Affliction/Goldenboy to the punch (no pun intended) on doing a hybrid card. The event was titled March Badness and took place last night, with a few interesting MMA matchups including Jeff Monson vs. Roy Nelson, and Bobby Lashley vs. Jason Guida. The boxing portion of the card had a handful of matches, and was headlined by Roy Jones Jr. vs. Omar Sheika.
(At this point I will say, if you want a proper write up of the results, with no opinion, you are in the wrong place, and should instead go here, otherwise read on.)
On the top of my list, I wanted to see how Bobby Lashley would fair. Lets just say, he’s no Brock Lesnar. Lashley carries a lot of muscle, has decent speed and comes from a collegiate wresting back ground (prior to his WWE days), and his quick for a heavyweight, but the similarities end there. Lashley does not have the reach advantage that Lesnar has, he weighs in at fourteen pounds less than Lesnar “officially” weighs in at, doesn’t seem to possess the knockout power that Lesnar does, and frankly his wrestling was less than impressive (partly due to the use of a Boxing Ring, more on this later). Going into the fight, Guida decided he was going to engage in some trash talk, which many of us thought would lead to Lashely via murder in the first round. What happened instead was a general lay ‘n pray style unanimous decision victory for Lashley, which was very nearly stolen via guillotine by Guida in the third round. I think Lashley still has potential, but he will be well served to remain in the lower level promotions for the time being. I also think it’s a good thing for Lashley that his originally scheduled opponent, Ken Shamrock, was unable to compete, as I believe Shamrock is dangerous enough that he could have found himself on a two fight winning streak after this event.
Next on the list, there were a lot of things about this event that I found interesting, besides the fights. One was the fighting surface, which was a boxing ring. This was not an MMA style ring like you see in DREAM/Sengoku/Affliction, this was a proper boxing ring. There was little room for the fights to take place inside the smaller ring, causing a lot of action to end up in the ropes. The ropes themselves were far less firm than those you find in one of the previously mentioned promotions and really inhibited the ability of the fighters to obtain take downs, Lashley in particular. At one point during their fight, Lashley had a single leg on Guida, and Guida was basically laying back in the ropes letting them hold him up (Guida also “conveniently” got his arm tangle in the ropes). I personally am a fan of the cage over the ring for MMA anyways, but this ring was far worse than what I’ve seen in other MMA events.
The officiating was questionable to say the least. The referees they had seemed to be boxing referees and not really MMA referees. In the instance of the previously mentioned rope grabbing by Guida, the referee came over to get him to let go of the of rope, then ended up separating the fighters, despite the fact that Lashley had superior positioning, and the only reason Guida was still standing was the rope grabbing. The next questionable situation arose later in the same fight, as the referee separated the fighters and called for move out of the ropes closer to the center of the ring, literally as Guida switched his hips and threw his legs up for an arm bar, that he actually had a good chance of locking in. The final instance was when the referee for the headlining Jones vs. Sheika boxing match waved off the fight as Jones was lighting up Sheika, while Sheika was still moving forward and trying to close the distance on the longer Jones. I don’t exactly follow boxing, but I just don’t understand how a man who is showing no signs of being “out of it” and is walking forward deserves to get stopped. Sure, he wasn’t acting like he was going to do much else in the bout, but let him at least get knocked down once before you stop the fight for crying out loud.
As far as the judges are concerned, I think they had Cecil Peoples writing out all three score cards. Just before the Monson v. Nelson fight they aired a six round preliminary fight that went to a decision, which I unfortunately wasn’t paying attention to, but I determined was judged incorrectly based on the reaction of the live crowd (mostly boxing fans) as well as most people in a chat room I was following while watching the fights. Next was the Monson v. Nelson fight, Nelson dominated the first round and much of the second, before Monson got up and into a clinch and threw some knees to the body of Nelson. By my count the fight was 20-18 at this point, but I was really curious as to how the judges would score the knees by Monson. Monson took the third, but it was close, so I scored the fight 29-28 Nelson (as did some of the other MMAFrenzy.com members that I have talked to). Well, if you’ve read the results, you know it went 29-28 unanimously for Monson, in a Hamill v. Bisping like decision.
Now for the minor points. It really was painful to watch MMA that was taking place in a venue where the vast majority (I would venture to say over 90%) of the people are in attendance to see Roy Jones Jr. in a boxing match. They booed clinch work, they booed submission attempts, they booed take down attempts, they ignored the massively impressive escape by Monson (he basically just picked Nelson up off of him with one arm to get out of side control and back to his feet), they even booed ground and pound. Granted, the event wasn’t the greatest display of the finer points of grappling, but it wasn’t terrible either. The fans in attendance were very quick to boo, and as someone who loves all aspects of MMA, it was rather frustrating to endure. It didn’t help that they intermingled the card, they had boxing and MMA on the prelims, then the majority of the MMA bouts for the main card, followed by one boxing match, then the Monson v. Nelson fight, then the headlining boxing match. It is my personal opinion that the Main card should have been separated, all the MMA bouts, then the two boxing matches.
The main announcer/commentator for the broadcast, who was present for all portions of the card was Colonel Bob Sheridan. They brought in Seth Petruzelli for his “expertise” during the MMA portions of the card, and a boxer whose name I forgot for the boxing portions of the card. During the MMA portion of the card the commentary seemed rather neutral, and Sheridan was trying “let the boxing fans knows” that the fighters were actually doing something when they were grappling. However, when Petruzelli went off mic, and it was only the two boxing guys, it was evident that they preferred boxing over MMA, and seemed to point out some of the differences between the two sports in a “boxing is better than MMA because…” kind of way.
The best thing to come out of the commentary on the night, in my opinion, came from the mouth of Colonel Bob Sheridan during the Jones v. Sheika fight. As Jones was pummeling the clearly outclassed Sheika, Sheridan made the commented that even though Sheika was losing the fight, he was still going to get paid pretty well, then he said “That’s what professional boxing is all about, making money.” A comment that sums up, to an MMA fan at least, all of the reasons boxing is dying, and why there was a pay-per-view being held for Jones to fight a clearly outmatched opponent, and somehow come away with a championship.
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I agree that Lashley is far less impressive that Lesnar, but Lesnar has layed all over his last few opponents too. Just like he did Heath Herring during their bout (though he did clock him right at the beginning of their fight, which broke Herring’s orbital bone.) Though Lesnar has the UFC title, I still see Lesnar losing his next few bouts, he’s all hype, just like Lashley!
Excuse me what?
Lesnar has layed all over his last few opponents?
He never even took Randy down in the last fight and infact won by smashing him in the head and sending him crashing to the canvas. Brock then did the clever thing, which was pounce on him and punch him in the head another 20 times.
He’s knocked everyone of his opponents down with punches in the UFC, and as for the “his last few opponents” comment, he’s only had 4 fights!
As for the article, Lashley looked incredibly green, for a wrestler he didn’t seem to know anything about changing positions. In the 2nd round he had a great chance to go to side control, and with his strength he should’ve been able to get mount. I’d envisage a Lesnar/Herring moment however, where Guida gave up his back and Lashley wouldn’t go for an RNC.
The ring was terrible yes, and Guida should’ve have a point taken away for grabbing the ropes, that was rediculous! MMA/boxing hybrids is not good, the fans were not impressed, which is a great shame seeing as MMA is far better than boxing… though not on that performance!
Randy got taken down in the 1st round. He also took Lesnar down.
Lesnar has look far more impressive than Lashley because of who he fought and how they faired. Lesnar has fought HW’s, and pretty dang good ones at that. His 2nd fight was against a former UFC champion in Mir, and while he lost that to a kneebar, he was in position to destroy Frank before Mir was sent a blessing in the form of 1 punch to the back of the head resulting in a warning, point loss, and standup.
Lashley fighting a LHW (when he makes weight) and not a terribly impressive one at that really couldn’t even get his weight and power advantages too horribly into his favor. A 3 round LnP does not really demonstrate the potential that Lashley hopefully really has.
Very earlier to say both don’t mix.
It was strange to have 4 grapplers on the card as the main attraction Nelson vs Monson had snooze-fest all over it on paper (proven to be the truth last night) why not a couple of bangers on the main card some strikers to get the fans in to the action or perhaps the purpose to have 4 grapplers as the main attraction was purposely done to make Boxing & RJJ look superior.
Ok, well I can see where the above commentor stated that Lesnar has layed n prayed against Herring… Now tho I don’t agree with that assesment I can see it.. The difference being that Lesnar may have been on top of Herring for the entire match but the man was active throwing punches, knees, constantly moving his controling angles and just cuz he was on top the entire fight he was quite active and put down a beating… Lashley didn’t really do much of that, he wasn’t too active and even tho he was out wrestling guida you can see how “green” Lashley is.. Mind you this is only his second MMA fight cut the kid some slack, right, but he truely needs to step up his training reg to become a top fighter in the world of MMA, imo a top 50 HW would beat Lashley rightnow… O and with Lesnar being 3~1 in MMA I will state that he is light years ahead of Lashley and if anything the fight last night should make most reconize that Lesnar is becoming better everyday and has true skills and is a true MMA competitor…
I watched that 6rd boxing match that Justin refered to in his piece and there is no way that the white kid didn’t win that fight, he knocked down his opponent like 3 or 4 times and clearly won the bout, how it UD for the other guy is Fing beyond me….
How in the world can you have a boxing ref, reffing a MMA match that almost made my head explode, well that and the fact that Nelson won the fight against Monson and somehow the fight went UD for Monson… UD seriously? No one, not a single judge had it for Nelson seriously no one.. Did they even watch the fight? or did they say he Monson looks in better shape so I think he won? WTHeck were they thinking it was unreal seriously un fuccccking believable…
How did Jones Jr win a title last night? How in the middle of a exchange did the fight get stopped for a (t)ko victory for Jones Jr? It was (imo) like o look they are exchanging pretty good, guy is returning shots, o Jones won ok, he won a title? How? why was the fight stopped again? fans go ape shhhit cool, this guy just got home towned, How did he win a title? Anderson would kill Jones Jr. end of stream…
It was a interesting night of MMA/boxing, which the fans don’t mix well and the sports don’t mix well either, maybe GB/Affliction could do “better” but I hope they don’t even attempt it…
Ok, ok. My comments weren’t well thought out, sorry to hurt your feelings. I agree, Lesnar is a better fighter than Lashley, but Lesnar’s “last few fights” were all the same. Though active on the ground, he produced nothing more than a borefest. Overzealous attempts at a quick finish, but they didn’t happen that way. He would take them down, “blanket” them, then throw hammer fists. He couldn’t seal the deal with anybody (With the exception of Randy, which I thought the punch was slightly behind the ear, but that’s just my opinion.) He hasn’t impressed me with anything inside the ring besides his size and speed. He’s a gimmick, all will be proven with the next two fights. I’m not a huge Mir fan, but he impressed me against Nog and when he first beat Lesnar. We’ll see how well he’ll do.
*Again, these are my opinions, I don’t mean disrespect, just my thoughts on lucky fighter. (By luck, I mean a person who has only 3 fights and gets a title shot.)
Behind the ear is a clean and legal shot. Back of the head is – according to Herb, Big John and other refs I’ve seen interviewed but whose names I can’t recall – usually taken to mean the area covered by Liddell’s crappy half-hawk, top of the spine to crown of the head. The soft spot, basically.
Hurt my feelings?? Friend my feelings aren’t hurt by any means, secondly hey you don’t like Lesnar there it is no biggie, he has talent for his size and he is becoming bett @ MMA quicker than most that’s my opionion
No worries. I know Brock can be a good fighter, he just needs some more time. BUT, I do gice him props for fighting the best of the best right off the top. Takes balls! But if Mir can’t take him down, I wonder if Shane Carwin can, that guy has bigger gloves than him!
I keep hearing that boxing is dying, but this writer like many others greatly exaggerate. I tell you what, let me know when boxing is dead. In the mean time I’ll keep look forward to the great fights coming up this year at welterweight that I am more than willing to spend my pay-per-view dollars for.
This is the problem with MMA. You keep comparing it to boxing and talking about boxing’s faults. Saying stuff like it’s all about the money. Are you fool enough to believe that Anderson Silva wouldn’t fight for a multi-million dollar purse given the opportunity? I think Dana White should embrace boxing. Invite some of the top boxers to the premier fights. Let them be seen at ring-side on camera. Get them to say how much they admire the athletes after the fight. UFC will get to those big pay days I’m sure, but don’t be pretentious and act like they wouldn’t fight for the big money. You’re going about it all wrong!
You’ll know when boxing is dead, I won’t have to tell you. Dying and dead are two separate things, some people with terminal illnesses are “dying” for years. In the case of boxing, I don’t think it has a terminal illness, boxing can be turned around, but first the people in the sport need to realize that the sport has problems and look to solve them, instead of denying that the sport is not what it once was.
I didn’t say that it’s all about money, please go back and re-read that last paragraph, it was a boxing guy that said that. Sure people won’t turn down more money, but how many people in MMA do you think would honestly take money to lose a fight, like Sheika basically did against Jones. Not that he got paid to lose, but that he got paid to take a fight he really didn’t have a chance in. (A fact further implied by the commentators on fight night.)
Why would Dana invite the boxers to the fights? If he invited them, they would probably want to get paid to be there, instead he lets them show up of their own free will, which to be honest I think they do, and are shown on ring-side camera. Let the boxers come out and say on their own how much they admire the athletes, don’t “get them” to say it. It has a lot more value if they say it freely, versus “getting them” to say it, and inviting them to your events.
I never said that money isn’t important in MMA, just ask Randy Couture, Fabricio Werdum, Roger Huerta, and the many other people that have had pay disputes with the UFC. My point is, that MMA is not “all about making money,” as Sherridan stated that Boxing is.
Well as a true boxing fan, I don’t believe boxing is all about making money. Is there some corruption? Absolutely. But the mistake that you and other MMA only fans make is that you have to put down boxing in order to lift MMA up. There is no need for that. I love boxing and really enjoy MMA. But don’t pit them against each other and ask people to choose.
Why should Dana White invite boxers to an event? Because it’s a good business move. It says they can coexist rather than you guys waiting for it to die. Once they(the boxers) come, they will no doubt enjoy the fight and say good things about it when the atmosphere is positive. I didn’t mean to say that they should coach them into verbalizing their appreciation for the athletes, but ask them what they thought about the fight. I guess I was typing to fast.
I love being a fan of both because I can appreciate what they both have to offer. But all this back and forth comparison is going to piss people off and make them choose. Why?
To address your assertion that MMA fans feel like we have to put down boxing in order to lift MMA up you should probably read more of the comments on this site. This was an event specific editorial, which lent itself to a bit of MMA v. Boxing discussion. The purpose of the editorial was not to criticize boxing, or say that MMA is better than boxing, but that this was a poorly executed event, in part due to the influence of some of the negative aspects of boxing on the event.
In regards to boxers supporting MMA, I’ve seen a lot of boxers and boxing supporters that want to bash MMA because they see it as a threat to boxing. I’m of the opinion that both sports can coexist, they shouldn’t necessarily be in competition. I just don’t want the negative things that are hurting boxing to be brought into MMA.
In regards to your concerns that “all this back and forth comparison is going to piss people off and make them choose,” you made this more of the back and forth about MMA v. Boxing. My comment in the article was simply that Sherridan’s comment about boxing being all about money is the reason why the sport is on a downturn.
Perhaps you should have chosen a better title to you piece and ended it on a different note. Boxing in not dying. Maybe to those of you who don’t watch it but the PPV numbers will speak for themselves.
My last comment on this is that MMA ONLY fans can sit and wait for boxing’s demise so it can be king. Boxing will always be king for me but as long as there are guys like GSP, Rashad Evans, and Anderson Silva, I’ll keep watching both.
There’s nothing wrong with the title on this EDITORIAL. This show sucked. MMA and boxing can’t MIX because the ring requirements are different. If can’t mix because boxing refs (and most hardcore boxing fans) can’t understand that you can have a good fight without standing in front of each other.
Booing every time a fight goes to the ground? 1, that’s disrespectful. 2, it shows a lack of understanding and more importantly a LACK OF DESIRE to understand.
Furthermore, when something is done only for the money, it IS the beginning of the downside. Take football, where the sport is being pussified to protect not people but INVESTMENTS. Cutting corners for money is the beginning of the end. Setting up a sure-win fight (see Jones Jr.-Sheika) for an easy payday is where a lot of people jump off. It’s no longer sport.
Look at Bubba coming through with the truth
IMO there is nothing wrong with the title what so ever, I think that the piece was well written and thought out… I personally believe that Boxing and MMA in the same show is a bad idea, I’ve never really gotten it.. If the crowd is pro~MMA the boxing get overlooked and if the crowd is pro~Boxing the MMA gets booed like mad, is it easier to understand boxing um perhaps, but there are little things in boxing that the casual fan just won’t understand, and god forbid if a MMA fight goes to the ground infront of a boxing crowd, they just can’t wrap their heads around that..
Whatever happened to the golden age (atleast for my generation) of boxing you know when you got to see Marvelous Marvin on CBS/NBC go for 10~12 rounds or Sugar Ray going toe to toe with his opponent at the time.. I mean you got to see Hearns fight wars Tyson was unstoppable the legands that were being made and for some the foundation of their legacy was being cemented on National TV, when it was the sweet science, Chavez was reigning supreme and you gather at the house to bbq and have beers (for the adults) then the family would sit down because the fights were starting and no one said shhhit just eww’s and aww’s, damns and wow’s and you watch the entire card just not the main.Whatever happend to those days, O thats right MMA (&UFC) came along and brought passion and joy back to combat sports
… think about it cheers…
great story, two thums up.
fat guida aint no barnett but i don’t think lesnar woiuld crush him much more easily.
mma is way more intereting in general but seeing Roy Jones Jr. was the best part of the card .
so if you want to waste bits and bytes on the mma<< thn boxing wait for another card.
Roy Jones Jr. is so unbelievably good.