BJ Penn Requests NSAC Investigation Into GSP Greasing Allegations
Posted by Kris Karkoski on Feb 4, 2009 at 4:06 pm ET127 Comments
BJ Penn
Nevada State Athletic Commission Executive Director Keith Kizer today forwarded MMAFrenzy.com a copy of BJ Penn’s formal complaint to the NSAC regarding Vaseline being applied to opponent Georges St-Pierre’s back during their headlining bout at UFC 94 on Saturday in Las Vegas.
The complaint can be read in its entirety here.
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i am iterested to see if they offer BJ a rematch? And if he will take it! if he does he better come in ripped and i hope he doesn’t talk smack this time “To the death, and I’m not joking!” “I want to be the best fighter in the wolrd!”
BJ can put up a better fight fo sho!
He needs to find him a good strength and conditioning coach and lock himself in the gym 7 days a week.
That towel alone will not remove vasoline fully, even a tiny amount. And youtube vid shows vasline rubbed on the chest and shoulders and looks like the upper back in a broad area. Who knows what happened before the fight and in other rounds. I love GSP, my 2nd fav. fighter after AA, but GSPs corner cheated. If the rule does indeed state they have to wipe if off, then they need to make sure it’s 100% off. If not the fight becomes unfair. Vasoline is a legal substance when applied to the face, it becomes an illegal substance when it’s applied to places where it’s not supposed to be applied. Furthermore, if GSP did have vasoline on illegal areas before it was wiped off and BJ
Take whatever bias you have for either fighter, watch the youtube vid, and you will see hands that have vasoline on them rubbed on GSPs chest, shoulders and upper back. That’s cheating. Was it wiped off, it looks like it was. But I know that towel alone cannot wipe off vasoline fully. If any of that vasoline caused BJ to slip at all even once, the fight in unfair. Look at the facts, and also take out personal opinion, and your explinations of what happened should look similar to what I just said.
Then BJ needed to be wiped off between rounds, that is the thing. He had it all over his chest and arms from rubbing on GSP. Either you limit where it goes and wash both fighters off between rounds or you accept that it will impede bjj and learn to do something else too, because it’s going to be everywhere by the end of a fight.
hahahahahahah hahahahahah what a lil baby! bj is my least favorite fighter it was bisping….but he is number one now. ill bet a hundred dollars the same thing will happen
how can you envy a cheating fighter. It wasn’t truly a fair fight,you know that… so then I ask you again, how can you envy a cheater????????????????? hahahahahahahahahahaha yourself.
I like that he refers to everybody in GSP’s corner collectively as “they.”
It’s also very interesting (surprising to me) that at the end he leads on that BJ is still interested in a fair bout which to me says he wants a rematch.
It’s hard to read into this too much as it was written by a lawyer on Penn’s behalf and thus has a lot of legal language, but it would seem Penn feels he was legitimately affected by the Vaseline and that the fight wasn’t fair.
The thing I found most interesting was that Penn reportedly warned the commission prior to the bout that GSP might attempt something like this and that he told the commission representatives in his corner that GSP was greasy but he was actually caught by someone simply observing him.
Thats so sad…..
Why is BJ making himself look like such a girl ?????????????????
What an embarassment to the sport !!!
BJ’s a baby, from moving up and down in weight classes, to freaking out when he lost to pulver in pingpong, to slapping someon in a BJJ competition, to deciding for himself the fight was over with Sherk, to crying about the Primetime shows, to entering the ring and trying to steel attention after the st-pierre and fitch war…..
He has no confidence in himself and wants all the attention………..
A very selfish human being and a disgrace to the proud and honorable Hawaiins !!!
This is a formal request, not a formal complaint to investigate the matters. Headline is misleading.
Updated title, thanks!
Thanks, enough people hating on my boy BJ as it is, don’t need any more fuel to the fire!
I find it interesting that they claim to have made mention to the commission prior to the bout to be on the lookout for this. It also does seem as though BJ is angling for a second rematch. I do like that they are hoping to get the Commission to take initiative without the formal “formal complaint” even though this is a pretty formal complaint.
I would love to ask BJ how “slippery” he was since GSP spent so much time with his face pressed against his chest and whether that presents an advantage to either party. As I said somewhere else, BJ was at least as slippery as GSP, although the manner he got that way was a bit different.
What this letter says is “His back was slippery and I know it must have been dirty because I never got near his back.” It also says, “Please do my job for me so I don’t need to do my job.”
And please don’t jump on me as saying it dopesn’t matter. It does. But the way “they” worded and sent this letter is very much: 1) unprofessional whining, and 2) every bit as slimy as they allege the actions to have been because they claim the vaseline was the only reason he lost the way he did.
Furthermore, the only remedy the NSAC is allowed in Nevada Administrative Code was done as required by said code. What will this investigation do, except get cutmen suspended/blacklisted?
sounds bias….hey what happens in baseball when players put tennis balls in their bats…or hey what happens in football when you hit head to head…rules are rules. gsp and his corner knew the rules and broke them. he needs to be punished ( made an example of) Im not saying that a non-greased up gsp wouldn’t beat bj’s ass….but I bet it would be alot closer :) I really don’t think it would of changed the fight much..I mean bj’s cardio was sh*t like usual, but if people are gunna look at mma as a legit sport, we can’t let things like this slide.
You missed the point. All the NSAC’s rules say about greasing is “a commission rep will wipe it off.” That was done, the rules were followed.
good letter….I like how bj still wants a rematch. When I first heard about the greasing talk, I just thought it was bj’s excuse(complaining cuz he got his ass kicked)….but then I looked into it and Bj talked about it in his first fight with gsp, Hughes said he was greasy in two of there fights and also Matt Serra said the same…just seems a lil fishy that 3 different professsional athletes would say this about Gsp..and if you look at tapes, a greased up bod would be perfect for gsps ground n pound style lately….I just hope they get better regulations on this type of stuff and give bj a rematch….that is if he takes his cardio seriously…I mean god damn bj, you have all the talent in the world and no cardio? wtf cardio is a give-me….
very interesting if true.
can u post here the parts that mention mat serra and mat hughes talking about the grease on gsp’s skin?
i’m sure we would all be interested.!
Matt Hughes’ blog If you go there you will find him talking about it, Serra I can’t account for.
Like Kris said,it’s just legal rhetoric bs.Take it all with a grain of salt until it’s heard directly from BJ himself.
i agree…strange that they would have warned before the bout, and definately BJ could have used it as an excuse after the first round since he went thru the trouble of warning the NSAC…but then to have had exactly what he warned them about obvserved? just plain crazy. i’d love to see a rematch too…there are too many people claiming that BJ is a b itch or that GSP is a cheater. this would allow GSP to silence any critics and hand out the beating again if thats what happens.
that the dirtiest thing i have heard about a UFC fighter that he “greases up” Matt Hughes, Matt Serra and BJ said he was greasy in there fights thats dirty!
for SHAME gsp!
IMO
Would love to see a rematch,as I think GSP dominated the first 2 fights I can’t see anything different happening a third time around,other than an even worse beating than the last time.
How can anybody say GSP dominated their first fight? It was a split decision and GSP’s face looked like he went about 12 rounds with a grizzly. BJ was unscathed. Dominated? please.
Looks can be deceiving.All BJ landed in the first round was his left jab and one good body shot.He obviously did some damage but the blood made it look worse than it was.
Penn’s lawyer’s an idiot. On page 2, paragraph 1, sentence 1 it mentions the illegal application of oils or lubricants (Vaseline). Then in sentence 2 it says “…such products are illegal and violate [NSAC].” WRONG. Sentence 2 should read “such application of products are illegal.” Vaseline is not illegal, only the application on surfaces other than the face. I know it’s nit-picking, but the guy’s a well-paid lawyer who needs to get his facts straight.
Very astute diablo. Impressed.
Side note – let’s just have them fight again.
I can’t figure anyone could disagree with that.
what the h*ll…my comment got removed!!! dirty calls bj an embarassment to the sport cuz hes filing a report and I say gsp cheated (which he did)….and My comment gets removed??? thats gay
it happens, bro just writ it again in a differnt way!
I like the way you think…
As windmiller said you can simply re-post it in a different way. I don’t mind disagreement and arguments but please refrain from personal attacks (“retard”).
Try using words besides “gay” to express displeasure. It’s a start anyway.
like curse words?
What a crock. Basically says BJ is a baby and he told his mommy (lawyer) to make it all better.
BJ got beat because he didn’t train well enough to win.
Give BJ the belt and sign them both up for a rematch and lets watch GSP kick his rear again.
Yeah, we get it you hate BJ. Please say something that isn’t just bashing BJ. Otherwise you’re part of the problem. Be the solution.
I don’t hate BJ. I just don’t like the fact that anyone thinks this minute amount of vaseline could have possibly affected the match. I agree with other posts that the vasoline that is applied to the faces of both fighters before the fight and during rounds gets spread all over. BJ wasn’t prepared. It is ridiculous to try to make excuses for BJ. He got his rear kicked.
I HATE BJ JUST FOR THE FACT HE IS A BABY AND HE PROVES IT TIME AND TIME AGAIN…
bJ is a baby, he wont get another rematch, if he dose he will have is ass handed to him once again.
It will look like the Shamrok tito ordeal if he gets another fight. Bad way to go out
dbiz-
do you think that rule is fair…or do you think it should be changed?
apparently they’re not doing a very good job of it….This type of thing brings us back to boxing with all the corruption and bad stuff we don’t want in mma!!
I think it should be a no contest and from now the face of a fighter is the only part of the body a cornerman can touch….whats everyone else think
I think the fighters will be just as slippery from transfer during the fight. Wanna stop the “slippery”? Stop allowing any grease.
Furthermore, they can’t make it a no contest, SINCE THE RULES WERE FOLLOWED.
Yeah, I have serious doubts over how much affect the Vaseline could have. If it had happened before the first round he may have a case but from round 2 on I think the sweat and grease transfer from the face would probably have as much or more of an affect than the little grease his corner applied, which was then wiped off anyways.
I KNOW THE RULES WERE FOLLOWED. Im aware. but I asked if you think they should be changed….if you stopped allowing grease, it would be a bad deal for the fighters. they need it for safety….but not on there shoulders, back and chest!
I think specifically saying “directly applying Vaseline/grease to body excluding face may result in bout result being overturned and possible fines and suspensions of fighter and corner” might help but it’ll be tough to make a rule clear and enforceable.
The problem Penn faces in having the decision changed is that the rules are very specific over when a decision can be overturned and this doesn’t appear to meet any of the criteria.
From a recent MMAJunkie interview with Kizer: “My understanding is there’s four ways you can overturn a decision. There’s a scoring error. There’s some sort of collusion; you know, someone paid off a judge, etc. The third is a positive drug test, and the fourth is the referee misinterpreted the rules.”
Also, the rule regarding greasing is vague and doesn’t lay out any penalties except that the substance must be removed. “The excessive use of grease or any other foreign substance may not be used on the face or body of an unarmed combatant. The referees or the Commission’s representative in charge shall cause any excessive grease or foreign substance to be removed.”
They need to make changes so this type of thing doesn’t happen….I mean this one of the biggest fights ever…and now its tainted!!!
It’s not tainted. Bj got destroyed regardless of any vaseline. Period.
yea bj got destroyed and its tainted….
do you think they can say it wasn’t proporly removed (the reff’s fault) and then over turn it?
If they do, the ref needs to be fired.
it wasnt the ref though it was a commision official… the ref was herb dean…
I was simply responding to his query about blaming Herb as a way to overturn the results. I doubt it would come to it but if a ref screwed up that badly, he should be fired regardless of who he is.
i think no vaseline on fighters is a good idea! IMO
Then you will end up with a ton of fights ending due to doctor stoppage from cuts.
If bj warned them about that stuff before then how much could gsp’s corner really get away with?
Apparently with rubbing vaseline on his shoulders and back.
dbiz, you crack me up man!!
I think willyd wants your digits dbizz
I’m kind of in the middle of doing a 180 on this topic. Go check out “GSP greased” on youtube, all 3 parts.
yea its ridiculous isn’t it??? you can blatenly see him rubbing vaseline all over
When I first watched the videos I thought the same thing but in one it did look more like a specific technique (which is in line with the witch doctor explanation) was being used as opposed to simply rubbing him with Vaseline.
check out these videos of gsp cheating!!!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vKuJSQJOiwM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=CJf56oxY-7A&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7gYP2NrYD1E&feature=related
s t h u
it wasnt GSP, did he rub it on himself no he didnt
im sick of all the GSP cheated rhetoric you and all the other BJ nut-huggers spew…
his corner man made a mistake which was fixed… END OF STORY
the fight wont be over turned… why? because if a BLATANT eye poke which made the ref think KO cant get over turned then less than 5ml of vaseline will do even less…
before he rubbed GSP’s face you could BARELY make out any vaseline on Nurse’s hand looked like he only had trace amounts to spread on him…
ALSO, if this caused so much problem for BJ, then it would have caused as much for GSP…
can we end this drama now im sick of seeing it and soon enough will stop participating in mma forum debates…
i liked BJ alot, but that was before he talked smack, and got his trainers to talk smack… but now he should just go train with gabe they both seem to have the same work ethic or rather, lack there of…
I think you might be on to something, save for the “no contest” part. Let’s have 1 trainer per corner and 1 cutman. The cutman deals with the face, the trainer everything else. That way you won’t have overzealous cornermen giving their fighters a little too much lovin’ between rounds.
Maybe I missed something but wasn’t the Vasoline wiped off. It does not look good for GSP having it placed on his back (even a small amount) and I guess it raises questions about previous fights but how did it affect the outcome of this fight.
[I am not BJ hating] It looked like he could not do anything against GSP because he was Gased, not because GSP was slippery.
Also another thought, some people are slippery then others when they sweat. I roll a little and some guys feel like they sweat oil.
I do think putting vasoline on at all is just stupid
So who wins?…Penn or Florian?? I say Florian.
If Serra were to drop down, could he take BJ?? I say YES.
Who knows, watch the lightweight tournament in UFC 39, return of the warriors. BJ beat Serra in a very close decision.
Do you know of a good site to watch replays of fights?
mmalinker.com usually has some, although I don’t go there much so I can’t vouch for quality.
This is getting rediculous. Of course bj is up for ” a fair bout”, because he badly wants a rematch. He’s doing all he can to take attention away from the one fact that isn’t being mentioned enough, he simply got his ass kicked. It’s all psychological dudes. It’s all text book.
It has been mentioned SEVERAL times by GSP fans BJ got his ass kicked! I am a HUGE BJ fan and have had a debate with you before about this fight and I stated BJ got whooped. 190ish comments on the previous thread and now onto this one. NO ONE is arguing BJ lost, the argument is what should be done with the corner and the rules. Also, this is a request for investigation, it NEVER said he wants a rematch, he wants the fight tossed out, the fight marked with an asterisk, etc. Investigation for a rules infraction. Everyone else is adding more and more, like the game of telephone.
“it NEVER said he wants a rematch, ”
Not in those exact words, but it’s there. Page 3. “In closing, all Mr. Penn wanted to have on January 31 is a fair and just bout and he continues to seek a fair and just encounter against Georges St. Pierre.”
That, my friend, is call for a rematch if there ever was one.
Dudes i just saw “gsp greased up” 1,2 and 3 on youtube, and there’s no way that anyone cheated. If you want to argue more, just go check it out yourself.
i saw it monday mourning, and i think it was dirty
FROM http://WWW.BJPENN.COM:
While locked in my tight guard, I noticed that for some
reason I was have trouble keeping my opponent’s head down. I practiced
shirtless with my great training partners, and never had this much
trouble keeping a guy from punching me. Was this guy uber strong or
something? Not exactly. After a couple more stiff elbows to my
grillpiece, I felt the familiar slick that I would get every day at
kickboxing practice on my nose and eyes, only it was on my opponents
neck, now up 2 rounds, Vaseline!
Greasy bastard, I thought. Of course I yelled to the ref, “Hey! He is
greased up!” but much like anyone else watching me get pounded, he
didn’t give a damn, and replied with “He’s ok!” Followed by another smash to the face. Yeah, ok for HIM, but
I’m taking a beating over here and can’t hold onto the bastard.
Jason “Mayhem” Miller Vaguely discussing his fight with GSP in 2005. Courtesy Fight Magazine
It should also be noted that “Mayhem” was questioned once again in light of the new scandal and was quoted in saying this.
“I probably would’ve had my ass beat anyways, but its true, unless he sweats Crisco”
—
Today Matt Hughes also released this statement:
“Now, on to what everybody is talking about, the greasing. I’m not the only one who has said that GSP felt greasy during a fight. I know Matt Serra has mentioned it and, even in their first fight, I think BJ said something. I’m not saying GSP did something wrong and I’m not saying that it would have changed any outcomes of any fights; but what I am saying is, for my last two fights against Georges, he felt greasy.”
From Matt-Hughes.com Blog
—
“Too many fighters have complained already.. The outcome of BJ and GSP does not matter anymore.. Just as long as GSP is not allowed to do it again for future fights. ”
Dan Cammarillo discussing the BJ vs Vaselined GSP issue.
Note: While it is purely speculative on my part. Dan Cammarillo is the brother of Dave Cammarillo. Dave Cammarillo is Jon Fitch’s trainer, 2 fighters from AKA have recently fought GSP, both Fitch and Kos. Ill let you draw your own conclusions as to whether or not his statement, ” Too Many Fighters have complained already”, holds any additional evidence to this matter. It is the only insight from an AKA insider available right now.
—
Sean Sherk, while I admit is not a good witness in a case where cheating is involved, said in UFC 56 Extras that GSP felt “Slippery” and according to Matt Hughes ( see above statement )Matt Serra Made Similar claims about GSP.
Contrary to popular belief, BJ Penn himself has not publicly commented on the “greasing” issue. I know that recent reports have claimed to be quoting BJ stating via his facebook account that “GSP felt a little greasy” but I confirmed this afternoon that was not BJ chatting.
However, if we are to believe the NSAC’s Keith Kizer, Penn did make a complaint to the commission during the GSP fight making him the 4th UFC Champion to claim GSP felt overly greasy while competing with him.
“I talked with another inspector of mine — he said that apparently B.J. Penn had complained to the inspector in his corner after either the first or second round that he though maybe Georges was a little slippery. I found that out this morning. At the same time he was complaining we were actually handling the situation in Georges’ corner. It’s just unfortunate.”said Kizer.
In addition to the above testimony, The quality of credible eye witnesses to the vaseline application at UFC 94 cannot be overlooked. Witnesses such as, Chuck Liddell, Frank Mir, Dana White and NSAC Executive Director Keith Kizer have all publicly displayed in one way or another that they acknowledged seeing Vaseline applied to George St. Pierre in an improper way.
At this point in time it is safe to say there might be a pattern of abuse here. Based upon the testimony above I think we can all connect the dots on this one. Are all of these highly regarded professionals making a big deal out of nothing? Im not trying to answer that question, Im just sharing what I know on this subject.
Im going to end this write up with a statement Eddie Bravo gave me to share with the BJPENN.COM readers. As the innovator of the rubber guard and a well regarded expert, I thought I would reach out to Eddie and get his opinion on what kind of impact these accusations, if true, would have had on BJ’s guard.
“Slipperiness is the enemy of any guard, including the rubber guard. It’s tough enough trying to submit someone no gi mma style without vaseline”
He went on to say.
“That’s why I am all for the NSAC allowing pants in mma like Japan. It will increase submissions which means more excitement, which means more fans which means everyone in the mma industry will benefit. Friction/pants should be encouraged not banned. That’s like banning gloves for NFL wide receivers for rainy games”
note: The opinions expressed here are my own and not necessarily that of the Penn’s.. If your going to hate, send it my way, not theirs.. thanks
Does it strike ANYONE AS ODD that:
1. It was the same guy doing the “energy thing” after each round
2. The motion of the technique was the same after each round
3. The emount of time it took to complete the enegy technique was the same
These do not speak to a cheater. It is clearto me that the guy had some Vaseline on his fingers.
FINALLY: the rules under NSAC say clearly that, if a foreign substance is found, it has to be wiped off. That’s it. If there was more Vaseline it was because GSP punched it off of BJ’s pathetic face.
Amen
Does it strike ANYONE AS ODD that:
1. It was the same guy doing the “energy thing” after each round (the Vaseline guy)
2. The motion of the technique was the same after each round (Getting the Vaseline in the same spots)
3. The emount of time it took to complete the enegy technique was the same (Making sure the Vaseline was applied evenly)
Yes, it does seem odd. I’m more disappointed that we didn’t get to see GSP do the nipple twist then the Vaseline incident.
And the NSAC official wiping it off? Did ya skip that part, BJ boy?
Putting that in wouldn’t of been very sarcastic.
Applying vasoline to the body is wrong,but it’s crazy how much this has been blown out of proportion.It was obviously unintentional.He put a small amount on his fingers and then wiped his face,and then proceeded to swipe his shoulders and the middle of his back.How much could have actually ended up on his back and shoulders?It’s not as if he intentionally coated his entire hands and then proceeded to give him a full rub down.
It has been blown out of proportion, wait and see what NSAC does. When I think of the Vaseline incident, it reminds me of the sticky glue added to Clifford Franklin’s hands in the movie The Replacements:
Clifford Franklin: “Now you know this don’t look natural Coach. now you know it don’t… I look like I just jacked off an elephant.”
i know how to fix this problem have all the fighters get greased up from head to toe like they do in Turkey’s ” Ya?l? güre? ” which is greased up wrestling…
lol
i say let bj take a year off to “get his carrer in order” he only fights what 1-2 times a year anyways. come back prepared and let GSP finish him off this time…
mean while GSP can continue to rock and destroy all his competition…
one thing i have always noticed about GSP is how much he sweats, and he does sweat alot, like me when im in the gym doing some ground work it nearly streams off my face… and sometimes into my opponents face…
maybe that should be a rule too ” no sweating ” because it could go into an eye and cause a moment of blindness… and of course makes you slipper
or maybe they should just make sure you “sham-wow ” a fighter between rounds so he is all dry and you can apply subs better…
or wait there is more… since slipperyness is an issue the fighters should fight in the dark… because the lighting from all the pods on the trussing raises temperature which causes sweating which causes blindness and slipperiness…
and then there should be a rule that you can only have shaved heads so hair doesnt get accidently pulled (sorry guida), or allows sweat to build up around the neck and back and shoulders…
im sure there are more rules that need to be applied, and added so that we can all watch mma properly, have the two fighters shadowbox and the first to gas loses…
i study jiujitsu and am going to my dojo and gym 2-3 times per week… my entire dojo feels the same way i do…
the vaseline that may have been applied was to small of an amount to make any difference… if you feel the opposite wy thats fine, but you had better have some experience on the mats to understand how much of an advantage such a tiny amount would have made…
like i said in a previous post… water would have done more than trace amounts of vas… for example the water GSP spat into the air before the round and the water that was poured on his back… those were more of a contributing factor than finger tips with trace amounts of vas that may have transfered even less trace amounts which were then wiped off…
all of this is just getting out of hand
This is blown out of proportion. It seems it’s being implied by the complaint that the very small residual Vaseline from Nurse’s hand to a point on GSP’s back and chest somehow endangered Penn and lost him the fight from the get-go. That’s ridiculous. At least from the footage shown of this ‘greasing,’ no one can conclude that there was huge globs of Vaseline being slobbered all over GSP’s backside. The first clip on youtube is the most damning, and it’s really not terrible, there’s what seems to be a minuscule amount on the back of Nurses hand that he massages into GSP’s face first before touching his back. In the second clip, he doesn’t even touch GSP. In the third, he very briefly touches GSP, hardly, and it’s inconclusive if he had any Vaseline on his hands as he did not rub his wrist first, or reach into a jar of it.
The laughable thing about this is that while they are fighting, BJ is coming into serious contact with the vaseline on GSP’s head when he’s trying to stuff the single, his hand is in GSP’s face, and in turn transferring to the back of his neck and shoulders in the clinch and on the ground. GSP and BJ’s heads are digging into each others upper bodies during the clinch. GSP’s head and face is all over BJ’s chest, stomach, and shoulders when they’re on the ground. The point I’m making, is that in all of this footage, if there was any vaseline on Nurses hand from the first clip, it’s such a brief period of contact, and GSP and BJ themselves are much more forceful in the actual fight with their contact against the face and in turn to other areas as illustrated above. So therefore if the claim is that all this incredible amount of vaseline was transferred from the brief touch of residual vaseline from Nurses hand, than a much more significant amount must have been transferred from one another’s faces just over the course of the fighting. Also, if there was all this Vaseline on GSP’s back, and Vaseline transfers SO easily with contact, than where is the Vaseline on BJ’s calves when he tried to utilize the rubber guard? I mean if his legs kept sliding off of GSP’s back from Vaseline, then surely some of the stuff must’ve gotten on his own legs. I’ve wrestled, never any jits, but it seems like if there was vaseline on BJ’s chest, it might make it easier for him to slide from side control back to retake guard…so this thing really works both ways. Also, there was no Vaseline on GSP’s sides or hips, which would’ve allowed him to slip and pass the regular guard as he did many times in the fight. And if you’re going to say (based on the footage) that all this vaseline was transferred onto GSP from Nurse, than BJ certainly had a copious amount on his arms, chest, stomach, shoulders, etc. just from the fight alone and the fact that there is vaseline on both their faces.
Also, as per GSP, and Kizer, the NSAC was there in the ring wiping him down with a wet towel every round at least past the 1st. Evident from the footage, there were two NSAC officials (Kizer included I believe) physically in the ring every round past the first, so if there was somehow foul play going on then…how did they not see it? The point is that Vaseline did not lose this fight for BJ, and to try and judge this thing a NC, or do anything beyond a fine or suspension for Nurse is absolutely ludicrous. I understand that if Nurse broke the rules, even unintentionally or minimally there should be repercussions, but to try and taint this fight so egregiously (as the complaint seems to be indicating) is classless and ridiculous. IMO
That’s basically where I stand. In any fight, there is enough incidental grease transfer that anything malicious would have to involve gobs.
But, I hear people talk about “illegal vaseline” and “illegal places”. Apparently we need someone to decide when you have illegal vaseline in illegal places and do something different about it when you have legal vaseline in illegal places. When do you wipe them down, when do you let it go? Who draws the line?
The NSAC saw something, they acted on it. Anything further should be of their own doing, not some publicity-hungry “request” from Penn. All the letter says, in polite legal terms, is “Do this and say you did it on your own so that we don’t have to make a fuss.”
I hope GSP brings up all the points that Eric did here, because it blows a hole in the theory that this, while it did break a rule, had the effect that they are alleging.
But if he does get a rematch, he’d better get a lot better in all aspects of his game. Cardio, striking, take down defense, keeping GSP from popping out of his guard within the first second, blocking strikes from the top, having any sort of offense…
But no matter what happens here, that was an embarrassing showing from someone who wanted to be considered the best in the world. I wouldn’t even call him the best in his own weight class if that is the best he could muster.
BJ is one of the better fighters in the world(in his weight class),this loss just shows how good/strong GSP truly is.
TO BE FAIR, u dont need big gobs of vaseline to make a difference.
last week someone smeared vaseline on my car (i blocked a driveway)
it was hell getting it all off.
so, even a tiny bit makes a difference.
and several guys had mentioned it too after fighting gsp, so, there’s a PATTERN.
IT WAS WIPED OFF ACCORDING TO NSAC RULES!!! WHAT MORE DO YOU PEOPLE WANT?
1. You want a rematch? Penn won’t take it
2. You want GSP and Greg Jackson to lose their licenses? Not allowed by the NSAC.
3. You want it to be a “no contest”? Not allowed by NSAC.
4. You want a tainted fight? No good. Everyone, EVERYONE, Penn or Pierre fan, knows BJ got absolutely killed.
Sigh……like a broken record.
Can anyone suggest a good site for watching past fight replays?
yoy tube ufc 94
it’s hard for bj penn to try jiu – jitsu moves when he’s getting his face smashed with elbows and fists. he should concentrate on trying to redeem himself with the kenny florian fight. what will his excuse be when florian beats him?
off the subject but did anyone see a guy grab bj and kiss him when he was walking down to the octagon? just thought it was funny and would break up all this tension.
it’s funny how now matt serra and matt hughes are talking about how greasy GSP felt in the fights they lost, but not in the fights when they beat GSP.
I wonder did his fists and leg kicks, and knees feel greasy too because in their fights that’s all i saw was a steady dose of great takedowns knees leg kicks and great stand up!!!!!!! John fitch didn’t have a complaint nor did Koscheck!!
I hope these to matt’s knock each other out and clean outta the ufc.
This is way out of proportion….fighters get vasaline on themelves in every fight. They glob it on their eyebrows and cheeks so much that its bound to rub onto the chest of your opponent. Not to mention on their gloves. It was clearly said that the commission saw it and they wiped it off! What is the problem here….GSP won the first round easily and there was no chance he was greased. BJ would have noticed sooner and would have said something….not to mention that the ref didnt say anything nor did BJs corner.
BJ is a very bad loser, one thing he was in poor shape for this fight ,too he only tried rubber guard like twice the third round when GSP was all greased, he wouldn’t not of been talking about this if BJ come in shape and kept his distance and boxed with GSP, but he couldn’t keep his distance because he was in extremely poor shape, and to keep distance you need to move and to move for 5 round you need a gas tank on full not empty
BJ needs to request to check and see if GSP’s legs were “GREASED” how else can GSP of slipped threw BJ guard? =P lol
BJ is no longer one of my favorite fighters !
He should be taken out of the top 10 pound for pound.
I’m with you! Why does BJ get these props? Silva (Anderson), Hughes, Liddell…these guys cleaned out their divisions and earned their hype. Who has BJ beaten in the last few years? Stevenson? Sherk? Throw in a a few losses to GSP and Hughes, and where does that leave him?? I say Florian takes him in two rounds.
The only,and youngest,american to win a BJJ World Championship.
One of only two(the other being Couture)UFC fighters to hold belts in two weight classes.
Cause of one fight against arguably the best welterweight on the planet?
I am a huge mma fan. I order every ufc event. I WILL NEVER PAY TO WATCH BJ PENN AGAIN!
Quitting in the fight after calling georges a quitter is one thing, but then after you go beat down in every facet of the game he hires an attorney. What a ****!
Did, anyone hear bj screaming like a lil bi*ch when GSP Supposedly was grabbin his shorts? If GSP was so greasy I’m sure he would of been screaming like a bi*ch about that as well.
This is just ridiculous. First, there is NO way that much Vaseline was left on the trainer’s hands after he applied it to GSP’s face. Then GSP was toweled off before be went into the right. Not to mention that BJ was already getting his ass handed to him. I was a BJ fan, but this is a whole new low and I’ve lost all respect for him. I can’t wait for KenFlow to kick his ass into retirement.
gsp shame on you shame
lets say for a moment that penns concern is valid.
NC, DQ ?
hmmm, dunno.
i’d watch a rematch for sure,
BUT i’d rather see bj move down weight wise.
kenflo vs penn is probably bound to take more interesting turns – not that the gsp vs. penn 2v wasn’t great – but every thing is possible in a florian vs penn fight, whereas penn IMO needed a 1st rnd KO to beat GSP.
likewise (in terms of horsepower) alves gsp should good
hopefully this incident will at least raise the awareness to up the standard of officiating, cause it’ll never be resolved unanimously – too bad.
1. witch doctor got away with greasing after Rd 1. without the ref wiping.
2. If it wasnt a big deal, the NSAC wouldnt have put it in the rules that it couldnt be applied to improper areas…these are any areas besides the face. if it goes from teh face to an improper area (heh) thats cool, but you cant apply it directly there…that is against the rules.
3. I tried tapping my back and rubbing my chest during a workout…didnt do sht
4. if youre a cornerman for a fighter the calibre of GSP, in a UFC main event, you should know that you cant rub even a tiny bit of vasoline on a fighters shoulders/back.
I woudl pay to see a rematch. I’m a BJ fan, and he totally got owned in that fight. By the looks of it, there is a good chance he’d get owned again. I think GSP fans would like to see BJ get owned again, because you guys obviously hate BJ.
“3. I tried tapping my back and rubbing my chest during a workout…didnt(sic) do sht”
You got it backwards, you’re supposed to tap your chest and rub your back… also, I’m not sure if you can do it to yourself, I think you have to get someone else to do it. Probably believing that it works affects its effectiveness as well.
big fan of both athletes , but move down bj, move down
Whatever side of the argument you are on in this situation, it is sad to see such an amazing fighter (GSP) have to answer to these kind of allegations.
GSP and BJ Penn are 2 of my Fav. Fighters as well
IMO I dont believe Bj was outta shape.
I do believe he coulda went 5 rounds. It was just he got owned and thats it. The game plan that GSP team used worked and tired Bj and he couldn’t recover. He got out muscled, out punched and worked over on the wrestle by the bigger stronger better man That’s IT.
Bj along with his Team knew Bj was had broke mentally and was hurt and didn’t want him to get KO by GSP.
It’s not fight to the DEATH MATCH so I dont believe in any fighter being a B**ch or being a quiter, that’s why you can tap or verbally stop the fight.
The problem is Bj talk sooo much about being a quiter and so on that now he has to look at himself in the mirror and wonder what he is now.
Or come up with a reason to why he lost.
Along with that GSP corner man Phil Nurse gave them a reason to question what they were doing.
Even though as most have posted, you get more Vasiline on you by rubbing your face and gloves on each other through course of the fight anyway.
WHAT MAKES ME MAD IS THE FACT THAT HE ACTS LIKE THE VASELINE WAS THE PROBLEM WITH THE OUTCOME OF THE FIGHT HES EMBARRASED THAT HE GOT MANHANDLED SO HES GONNA MAKE EXCUSES JUST LIKE WHEN HE MADE EXCUSES ABOUT THE WAY HE WAS POTRAYED IN THE SHOW. THE GUY HAS NO CLASS WHATSOEVER I THINK HES A GREAT LIGHTWEIGHT FIGHTER AND I HAVE HUGE RESPECT FOR HIM GAINING WEIGHT LIKE THAT BUT YOU GET YOUR ASS KICKED TAKE IT LIKE A MAN AN MOVE ONE!!!!!!!!!!!
go bj get a rematch and kick his ass…………………we can all dream
Dana White was pissed, he even told “the crow” george is in a lot of troble (the crow didn’t look surprised)
i saw a vid of some gsp’s other fights (durring the rest period)and one of his corner men actually put an open jar of vas to gsp’s back and they did the same thing as this Penn fight with rubbing him down so his team has been doing this for a while!
i used to love to see gsp fight!
not no mo! : (
What fight was it, I would like to see that!
Ha Ha Ha,what a load of bs.
I’m thinking bs too, that’s why I want to know which fight. Really don’t think they would have a whole jar in the corner and not get noticed!
he did nothin wrong it was his cornerman!!!!!!!!
Id love to see GSP Pound out BJ one more time, cant get enough of it.
This is his only avenue of approach to try and secure another fight with GSP.
So many people are focusing on this Vas. thing and totally ignoring the rest of the fight, merely chalking up the loss to lubrication.
BJ knows if he manages to secure another fight with GSP that this time he should try and prepare, his cocky attitude had him actually believing he was better than GSP and skills alone would win the fight.
I dont think he deserves another, he’s lost twice to the guy, this time totally dominated.
The first fight BJ’s punches were the only effective tool, GSP schooled him on the ground in both fights.
The third fight GSP would totally obliterate BJ, as history shows each subsequent fight gets more and more difficult against GSP.
In my opinion BJ is grasping at straws and just cant accept that he is not the best at Welterweight.
He’s not even second or third, he should not have even been granted this fight, he should have had to defend his LW title.
I think bj is a sore loser, he lost, fair and square tat vasoline was rubbed off with the towel, and it does sompletely come off, vasoline doesn’t stay on so easily for him to be so slippery, that’s stupid.
I don’t see GSP as a cheater.
Bj would have lost either way.
Good job BJ, you talk too much and then you quit and find excuse to explain, why you lost! I agree that there was vaseline where it should not be, but for those who have seen the first and second fight, BJ was never close to set up a submission on Georges, no never, and I like the point mentioned earlier, what ever amount of vaseline was aslo spread on BJ’s body, that was not cleaned up, so it did also affect Georges’s performance! Ok let’s call this one a NC and let see how Baby Jay will find something else to complain about next time! Everyone notice the shape is was in! Not very impressive! He is talking too much, he is not what a black belt should represente, and give bad reputation to the sport. Since his begining on that TV reality he has been a very bad, cocky and name it, I just can’t understand how his fans find anythings good about him!
Good thing, is that it is over for him, there is no more confidence, he has sloppy training and a big mouth, what else did I forgot!
omg, BJ penn needs to get overhimself i watched the fight and the anouncers were like, hes just “resting” what ever it was obvious that GSP kicked his ass! it wouldnt matter anyway, vasoline or nawt Bj penn didnt get a shot in he was on his back the whole time! sore loser!
Nothing like being a week late, eh Captain?
Okay..didnt watch the ppv match…but if its true dana frank mir..etc all saw it and say they were putting on his body…thats crazy. And for all the GSP fans that say…IT DOES NOTHING to win th Fight…Then WHY the HELL else Would he RuB Vaseline on his shoulders chest and back???? THEIR is absolutely positively no reason for it. The ONLY motive for that is to get a tactical advantage on someone he is fighting who is a great grappler…eh…hmm…ahh?? That and the fact he admits to paying a guy to kiss him……someone who does that, i would not put past them greasing. In Boxing, if they put to much vaseline on the face, the REF makes them take it off because it causes the punch not to be as powerful and slip more. Announcers talk about how a corner will try to get away with it sometimes. And they have the excuse that they are trying to stop a cut on the face….Yet Their is NO REason AT ALL to Be Applying vaseline on his shoulders back chest area… other than cheating. I use to like GSP..but now he strikes me as the kind of person that would wall hack in BF2. That WANKER.
Nothing like a timely reply.
Further More……BJ PENN does get Tooo DAMN TIRED and that is the main reason he has lost fights. He needs to get B-HOPS nutritionist…get that energy back.