Who’s The Quitter Now? UFC 94 Thoughts And Commentary
Despite pushing the idea that opponent Georges St. Pierre would lose their highly anticipated rematch because he was a “quitter” who could therefore be broken once more, it was BJ Penn who called it quits on Saturday night after absorbing an absolute shellacking at the hands of the man they call “Rush.” You can argue that it was Penn’s corner who specifically called a stop to the contest, but the fact remains that BJ could have waved off his brother’s advice and continued into the fifth and final round. He made no such effort to fight the call. He was battered and destroyed. So, who’s the quitter now?
Even though he got worked over like a red headed stepchild for the majority of the bout, “The Prodigy” has absolutely nothing to be ashamed of in only his fifth career loss. BJ Penn truly has a gift that only a handful of people on the planet will ever be blessed with, but even with such natural talent he was undeniably in over his head trying to combat the size, strength, speed, endurance, and sheer aggressiveness of Georges St. Pierre. To Penn’s further credit, it is extremely difficult to realistically envision anyone at this stage putting a stop to GSP’s dominance. Perhaps Thiago Alves, but I wouldn’t bet on it.
Honestly, I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t just a little bit worried that BJ Penn will become discouraged from this loss and grow disenchanted with the MMA game yet again. My hope is that Penn accepts that GSP is simply the better welterweight fighter, and comes back with some renewed fire to continue wreaking havoc in the lightweight order. But you can never really tell where BJ Penn’s head is. Hey, if I had a beautiful sandy beach just outside my living room I might get discouraged from a fighting career as well.
And I almost forgot, if you were wondering if I thought there was any significance to Penn’s latest Vaseline accusation, my answer is a resounding no. Could there have been too much Vaseline on St. Pierre’s back? Absolutely, and from what I hear there probably was despite the commission rubbing a portion of it off. But I look at their first fight and see St. Pierre working the exact same positions with Penn still unable to mount any offense from his back. Not to mention the additional “back greasing” would have had no bearing on GSP’s boxing and takedown domination. Personally, I think GSP could have worn long-sleeve under armor and Penn still wouldn’t have been able to secure anything better from the bottom.
But we have to acknowledge that GSP’s corner did technically go afoul and should have known better than to pull something like that in such a high profile fight. We don’t need any asterisks or question marks after what should be a definitive victory, but I don’t think any of those typographical symbols will be necessary after viewing the fight for the third time now. Sorry BJ, but you got legitimately outclassed and methodically beaten. It happens. Please take your aggression out on Kenny Florian at your earliest convenience.
Moving on…
I understand its standard for a fighter to raise their hands after a thoroughly contested bout, but who did Nate Diaz think he was fooling hoisting his fists after every round? Am I the only one who thought that was kind of ridiculous? Its not like he took any round convincingly (in my opinion.)
Clay Guida might only have tenacity and wrestling on his side, but it seems to be more than enough against what I would consider very solid competition in Nate Diaz. It’s likely he will never become our lightweight champion, but it’s also easy to see why someone like Guida always has a home in the UFC. Now if he would only work on that boxing…
Keep in mind this sentiment comes from a big Karo Parisyan fan, but in my opinion Karo lost or at best tied his contest with fellow judoka Dong Hyun Kim. I’ve re-watched the fight in the light of day and I still wouldn’t score more than one round for Karo, who apparently preferred to use a Modell’s discount mouthpiece. What the heck was that about?
While were on Parisyan, why is it he was not granted the customary quickie Joe Rogan chat after that razor thin decision? Was there just not enough time on the broadcast to squeeze that in? In the words of G.O.B. “come on!”
Say that Stephan Bonnar has never been a world beater, but Jon Jones looked like a beast in only his second UFC bout against very game and much more seasoned opposition. Jon Jones is obviously a more unconventional fighter and maybe should play it a bit safer in the future (see Faber vs. Brown for an example), but the man has undeniably well versed skill and infinite potential. If he can figure out how to keep the gas tank full then 2009 will be very good to “Bones.”
Lyoto Machida surprised me.
I admit, I have never been terribly pleased that Lyoto Machida racked up so many UFC victories via a drawn out decision. But Machida really pushed back hard against Thiago Silva and I am officially impressed that he went in for the kill and ended things definitively. I may never enjoy the “elusiveness” of Machida, but the man deserves the title shot regardless of how he goes about earning it. Because honestly, I wouldn’t want to fight the guy. Not on his worst day.
Unrelated Note*
Saturday night started off a little hectic for me. An evil bartender wrongfully informed me that their bar would be showing the UFC pay-per-view just as they always had in the past. Once 10:01 came around I asked a different barkeep why the fight hadn’t been turned on the televisions yet (they were still showing the Flyers losing effort) and low and behold, he tells me they didn’t order the fight. So I pounded my beer and got the hell out as fast as I could. Short on time and unable to drive (I was already drinking quite a bit) I ran back to my girlfriend’s apartment and ordered the event at 4:22 of the first round of Diaz vs. Guida. So screw you, uninformed blonde bartender bitch. You just lost yourself a customer.
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GSP destroyed BJ but I do hope that Bj does come back strong and domniate the LW division for the rest of his career! GSP on the other hand…..bring on Alves and then Silva! GSP vs Silva would be MMA history!
I think this fight proved that the weight classes are there for a reason. When two excellent fighters fight and they have a similar skill set, the winner will be the one who is bigger, stronger and more able to oppose their will. GSP beat BJ because he was way bigger and stronger (6 inch reach advantage!).GSP may be able to take down Silva, maybe. But on the way in he will eat some nasty punches, kicks and knees. Silva will keep him back and beat him down with his far superior striking and if it goes to the ground GSP wont have the strength advantage to hold Silva down. The X factor for a GSP/Silva fight will be size and strength. GSP will lose solely because of that.
Eric,
Yeah, what you said.
You are modded +5 for insightfulness. Congratulations.
The Karo comment is dead on.
Do you think Guida won that fight?
Absolutely. Diaz showed resilience but Guida didn’t really give him any room and had him on the defensive for most of the fight. Guida earned the decision.
You don’t think Guida was the one on the defensive in round 2 by holding on to diaz’ waste from behind and doing little else?How is that offense?(of course the ref is partially to blame for not seperating them).Diaz landed more strikes,more take downs,and more sub attempts.And in round 3 Guida took what-23 unanswered blows.We’ll have to agree to disagree.
Man I had similar comments on the “prediction for GSP/Penn post thread” about BJ get’n depressed and unhappy about losing again.. When he lost his fights he cut weight to fight lighter fighters. When GSP lost he trained harder and Got 2x better and came back to dominate at his weight class, and had a tougher fighters then BJ Penn had..
I know with BJ alot of what he was saying was just fight hype. But at some point all that smack comes back at you full circle. Who’s the quiter now?? WOW.
Even though I DONT FEEL LIKE ANYBODY who enters the ring or cage could ever be considered a quiter,, Swollowing all that trash talk about GSP being a quiter and being a b**ch, man it’s gotta be eating him up inside!! Knowing he got molly whoped and then for the world to see him get the TKO, for not being able to continue, MAN!!
I love BJ but he asked for it big time!!!
Should GSP have received ’submission of the night’?
Oh yeah I knew thiago silva was over rated..
Not taking anything from Machida at all but Thiago has no cardio and cant take punches..
Along with some other fighter I can’t think of at the time but IMO and I said IMO Thiago silva needs to be at 185 along with Shogun, A/silva, Houston Alexander oh and if or when he suffers a loss, Rashad Evans. All of a sudden the 185 class becomes beastly again.
No Jaymz… he didn’t submit anyone. I’m a huge BJ Penn fan, and never wanted to see this fight in the first place, just like GSP should never fight Anderson. Fact remains, BJ didn’t tap out while being repeatedly punched, he made it to the end of the round and respectfully gave the fight the superior fighter. This is what weight classes are for. Anderson, GSP, and BJ all have the potential to dominate their respective weight classes but these so called “super fights” **** that up by pitting naturally smaller challengers against much bigger fighters who are meant to fight in their own division. Anderson’s far to big and long for Georges, just as he was too big and strong for BJ.
that was verbal tapout sarcasm
I lost a lot of respect for BJ after TUF. He talks big game but doesnt put in at the gym. GSP owned him. I would love to see Faber move up and head to the UFC for a bout with BJ. That would be interesting.
if penn fought faber the way he fought against sherk and stevenson….he would absolutely demolish him. i think faber vs sherk would be an amazing fight.
If Penn fought Faber the way he fought GSP, we’ve got a new lightweight champion. Goes both ways. And that is also the problem with BJ. You never know which BJ will show up for a fight.
If Faber fights BJ the way he fought Mike Brown, we’ll prove, again why there are weight classes.
It’s a lot of fun to debate who would win various cross-weight fights, but to me, I really don’t care if I ever see them or not. I really feel that the champions of these weight classes are dominant in their divisions because they are fighting at their ideal weights and have put in tremendous effort and work to drop the excess weight and build their cardio. Carrying an extra ten or fifteen pounds will certainly impact a guy and, I feel, put him at a disadvantage against the guy who gets to stay at his natural weight.
Would GSP v. Silva be a great fight? Maybe. But GSP has to go up 15 pounds to fight a guy who walks around at 205 and drops to 185. I have to agree with those who think Silva would do to GSP what GSP did to Penn. For my money, I prefer fighters staying in their own weight class. Not to mention, I also think a lot of fighters are better off moving down a weight class (i.e. Bisping…so far it seems to have done him a world of good)
didnt faber train with bj for the pulver fight?
I didn’t really care for the Guida v. Diaz results. Yeah it was a little retarded that Nate put his hands up after each round, but all Guida seemed to do was hug him for four out of the five minutes of each round.
re: “all Guida seemed to do was hug him for four out of the five minutes of each round.”
If your assessment is accurate, which it’s not, but still even if it was accurate that Guida “just hugged him” most of the fight, Diaz “just got hugged” most of the fight, so that translates into a victory how?
Justin, for the win. All our case are belong to you.
Nurr. Base. Caffeine now.
haha, good job… great joke, would have been better had you gotten in right
p.s. I’m on my second cup of coffee, so I clearly have an advantage at this point in the morning…
i don’t think it translates into a victory! but it is a sucky way to win, he didn’t advance a whole lot he just stayed on his back?
I dont understand, why is moving up a weight class a mistake if the fighter can win fights? If BJ would of won that fight everyone would be saying a diffrent thing.The FACT IS BJ IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO WIN AT 170lbs. There are plenty of examples that prove moving up and down in weight classes make for great fights. What about the spyder, he moved up and look very promissing in both weight classes. The natural is a legend not just because of his age and time in the UFC but because he did in fact hold belts in two diffrent weight classes and did very well at it. Even with Brock Lesnar he looked like a pinto bean pushing around a potato… What about Hendo he has shown great talent in both classes going the distance with Rampage and fighting for the middel weight bout. I think all you guys are wrong about the moving up and down in weight classes. You mean to tell me that you did not care to watch any of theses fights JL. Think again buddy. If a fighter has the talent to beat up someone that is maybe 25lbs heavier then why the hell not? And DAN dont be mad BJ lost the fact is he quit. I wish he wouldent have so he could of got KTFO!
don’t forget bj fought lyoto… though he lost he didn’t get whooped. GSP now he is smaller than lyoto but beat the sh%it out of bj. So I don’t think size was truly that much of a factor at least between GSP and bj.
BJ might not really be a quitter neither but he have lots to swallow, all the trash and dirt he said to so call hype the fight came back way too fast for him…
As anyone see a BJ post fight interview… If so can it be post somewhere… I’ve been looking everywhere. To me if he didn’t man any post fight, it shows how anti sport and sore looser the guy is!
Penn went straight to the hospital after the fight. It’ll be interesting to see what he has to say in the coming days/weeks.
The way Dana made it sound like was using vasoline on your back and shoulders, aside from steroids, is the biggest no-no in MMA. I’m wondering if we are missing the bigger picture…there is a clear rule and that rule was clearly broken, regardless of whether or not it affected the performance (which is a seperate issue) and regardless of whether or not in was intentional. When a pitcher is busted for scuffing a baseball, they don’t go back over the past few innings and determine whether it made any sort of difference with his offspeed stuff. The rule was broken, and thats all there is too it. Same way with a corked bat, nobody tries to disect the prior few at-bats to see if it would have made a difference. I think the amount of grease that was applied was most likely insignifacant, but again I have absolutely no idea how much (or little) needs to be applied to make an impact. There was a clear episode after the first round, aside from the infamous third round in which the article talks about. I will stop playing devil’s advocate for a second and say that my honest guess is this should be a non-issue. But i will admit, I have never seen BJ’s guard get so easily abused. It was never passed in their first fight. It was like there had to be some sort of explanation…
Breaking the rules is breaking the rules, regardless of intent, and regardless of the result. Good analogy with the baseball stuff, Jerod.
-3 years later
-bigger,stronger,faster
-5 rounds instead of 3
-training
if it really was efecting anything why didn’t BJ say something while the fight was happening?
Exactly.and I’d bet that when BJ does respond he’ll say it didn’t affect the outcome.
I HATE TO SAY THAT I TOLD YOU SO BUT SINCE THE FIGHT WAS ANNOUNCED I’VE BEEN TELLING ALLL YOU “PRODIGY” FANS THAT GSP
S HIS DADDY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Could anyone post the artical that talks about the rule violation please?
Penn Files Complaint Over Vaseline on St-Pierre’s Back wow, that was hard to find.
Show some respect. I have not seen nor heard of such abuse since the book of Job. Penn shows balls the size of coconuts to stay as long as he did.
i dont see any vasoline. looks like GSP got a lil but of a inbetween round “relax” massage
his shoulders, not his back is what got touched… and it didnt look any more shiny than from the sweat that was there
I think St. Pierre is the better fighter. No question. However, BJ was not prepared for this fight. There is absolutely no excuse for how putrid his performance was. He was gassed midway through the first. No one with the talent of Penn should get worked over like that.
i don’t think GSP is the better fighter. i don’t really like bj that much and i’m a big fan of GSP but i do think B is the better fighter but going up a wieght classs makes it to hard and i know anderson silva is a better fight then GSP and gsp going up a wieght class i’m scared he wouldn’t make it out of the 1st round
hahaha how u can u say that bj penn is the better fighter after getting destroyed like that he and anderson silva better watch out!!!!!!!!!cause everyone thought bj was gonna destroy gsp and look what happened
GSP’S The better fighter by far. He’s “the complete” fighter in every way. Conditioning is part of being a fighter. Strategy is part of being a fighter and dicipline is part of being a fighter. Bj Had none, and gsp had them all. The end result speaks for itself. Gunslinger,johnboy and everyone else who wanted to talk to me “after” the fight was over, i’ll be kool and i won’t say anything other then, my boy gsp’s still the champ and now on of the best ever after putting your boy bj away.
GSP is just the better man o that day. for all the hype it had, I was bored with the fight coz GSP dominated it all the way.
It bothered me to hear Karo talking on the aftershow, he admits AGAIN that he took another fight lightly and that he squeeked through. I think he was so poorly prepared he had to borrow the mouthpiece or some desperate last minute purchase.
He is a fraction of what he used to be and i used to look forward to his fights, now it’s just sad and to hear him talk about him belonging in the top 8 in the division is delusional…get a grip on reality.
I also thought it was a laugh to see Diaz trying to work the Judges with his hands raised after losing a round, that fight needed 5 rounds, it just got started and was over it seemed to me,.
Mike G I totally disagree with your opinion of a GSP vs Spider fight. GSP would not likely stand around and wait for the spider to do what he does, I’m sure, after seeing the results of the last 4 fights, that GSP and the incredible support staff he has would come up with a winning game plan for the SPider. Now don’t confuse what I’ve just said with anything that even resembles you taking my opinion to mean that GSP would handle Silva no problem. But GSP doesn’t walk around at 170 so I assure you that whatever size/strength advantage you might think Silva would have on GSP would quickly become non existent. I think 185 for GSP would be an amazing size. Think of it and you will see what I’m talking about. That is a fight I would travel to L.A for, and I live in eastern Canada!!
any body that watched ufc prime time would know that gsp was going to win on prime time gsp was working hard every time u saw him bj was just chilling on the beach hiding from dana I’m not riping on bj his a great
fighter but his lack of work showed the first round was close but
after that gsps work ethic kicked in takeing bj down at will geting past
his guard bj was just wanting out of the rounds overall it was a disappointing fight I like both of this fighters but only one showed
up to fight as for the possibly of a gsp vs the spider it will be a great fight it’s hard to say who will win but if i had to pick one i
would say Anderson Silva only because gsp has not been in the
cage with a striker like Silva and if Matt Serra’s punches was
to much gsp then what do u think the spider going to do to him?
trying to equate pre fight mind games with penn being a quitter.
if penn ko’d gsp and thhey was no ref, do you think he ‘kill’ gsp.
no.
the guy fought a heavier , elite deadly opponent
, so we could watch.
that makes him a stud.
not wanting to suffer brain damage when he was finished makes him smart – not a ‘quitter’
gsp vs anderson could be a good fight,
but GSP might be on the undersized losing end this time
although hendo had a very good first round against spider.
i’ll wqtch it for sure if it happens
I think if Serra drops down, a battle against Penn would be perfect.