Penn Files Complaint Over Vaseline on St-Pierre’s Back
BJ Penn
BJ Penn has filed a complaint with the Nevada State Athletic Commission after Vaseline was applied to Georges St-Pierre’s back between the second and third rounds of their UFC 94 headliner.
During a post-fight appearance on ESPN’s MMA Live St-Pierre explained that one of his trainers applied Vaseline to his face between the first and second rounds then rubbed his back with the same hand between the second and third rounds, accidentally applying some remaining Vaseline to his back. An NSAC official who witnessed the transfer had the Vaseline immediately wiped off with a towel.
Little is likely to come of the complaint as St-Pierre was already dominating Penn prior to the incident and the substance was immediately removed, ensuring that it had no effect on the bout’s outcome, however we’ll pass along more information on the situation when it becomes available.
MMA Live’s UFC 94 Postfight Extra is embedded below with St-Pierre’s discussion of the incident beginning at 5:25 remaining:
Update: Fightlinker has a GIF of the incident here.
Tags: BJ Penn, Georges St. Pierre
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What a dick BJ is. Just face it Penn, you lost and more importantly, you quit! I dont have a problem with quitting, but for Penn to think it is such a bad thing, it was good to see his corner pull him out.
Grease on GSP’s back? That didnt stop Penns face getting smashed to bits. Good showing for GSP, im proud.
[deleted, fighter bashing]
The guy says st pierre lacks courage and will quit – and then “bj” quits
classic
one other thing: now that penn’s been beaten like a dog, do you think joe rogaine will stop sucking his dick on TV?
I clearly stated that gsp would win but bj had the chance to knock him out in the early rounds. You said what i didn’t have the balls to psay and ublicly back up. (or i didnt want to ask or aka bjs takesown defence for i.e.)
I predict a super UFC 100
Rashad Evans vs. Lyota Machida
(or Rampage if he beats Jardine or just plain wants to)
Georges St. Pierre vs. Thiago Silva
B.j. Penn vs. Kenny Florion
Sorry, takedown not takedowns if you didnt notice
GSP vs tiago silva?
don’t you mean tiago alves
why the hell would gsp fight thiago silva?!?!??!?!?!??!
Wow was I ever hammered when I wrote that. Hopefully everyone can just auto edit when they read it, hence UFC fan with the correction.
Sorry Blaine. Calling BJ that is nothing but fighter bashing, something we frown on here. You have as little class as you claim he has. Ironic isn’t it? Kinda like rain on your wedding day….
Kinda like a green light when you’re already there?
I dont see what was wrong with Blaines comment? I just think certain people on here (you) like to put others down and rip on thier opinions!
@Ryanmoney: I do. If people can’t express opinions without sounding like an angry 14 year old… maybe they’re not worth expressing.
ryanmoney,
Its not about the opinions he espoused, its the fact that he called him “blow job”. To express your distaste for a fighter is fine, and if you’ll notice there are plenty of other comments that express distaste for fighters, and even BJ, that dbiz did not saying anything about.
As justin said it wasn’t his being critical of BJ that there’s an issue with, it’s how he did it. Respectful criticism is always accepted and appreciated but that was uncalled for. The improper posts have been deleted and he’s been put on moderation.
ryanmoney says:
February 1, 2009 at 10:43 am (Report)
I dont see what was wrong with Blaines comment? I just think certain people on here (you) like to put others down and rip on thier opinions!
—–
Had he simply said his name (BJ) I would have disagreed with his comments. The only lines for posting here right now are the lines we draw ourselves. As no one has ever said to me, “Dbiz, I think you crossed the line with that comment” I tend to not soften how I say things.
Basically, I don’t want hard and fast rules for what can and can’t be said. I think a lot of times certain words may appropriate in the context of a statement and don’t want to have them never allowed. As such, I tend to come down of people who use “gay” as an insult to fighters, or those who make mean-natured nicknames.
I’m as guilty as anyone of creating names for fighters. I’ll make every joke imaginable about Fedor’s hands or Nick Diaz’s Mike Tyson-esque speeches, but I try to keep them relatively good natured.
If I cross a line to you, call me on it. If I say something about a fighter that offends you (and I don’t mean that you simply disagree with), call me on it and report the comment to Kris like I did here.
I’m not unreasonable, I just play it on online.
Maybe someone just needs to bash you ****. Your probally a BJ fan which means your g-string in a bunch cause your big mouthed favorite fighter got his ass WHOOPED. The only irony here is that J called him a punk **** cause he quit yet BJ did the same.
Win like a Champion, lose like a Champion.
Before the bout Penn talked quite a bit about what
Martial Arts is really about. His post-bout complaint
proves that he really just does not understand. Hold
your head up high, show respect to your competitor,
and the fans.
bj did not deserve 2 win george worked harder. i always thought that bj was full of him self but he needed 2 face the facts george was better stronger and quicker. bj should act like a real man and fight instead of talking junk. good job george you desrved 2 win this, and as for you bj if you ever want 2 beat george your gonna have 2 work alot harder.
BJ its time to stop talking and start training harder, obviously your ‘natural talent’ just aint enough anymore, GSP has natural talent too, but he doesnt solely rely on it – HE WORKS HARDER THAN YOU- meaning he wants to win more than you do!!!!!
Um there was a fight? Oh it doesnt matter i new george would win anyway
I dont even know why Bj showed up i mean if you look at both of them and compare them who do ya think is gonna win
When BJ was first put on his back and attempted the rubber guard GSP slid forward out of it. Vaseliine could have prevented a triangle. But I don’t remember which round that was and it isn’t clear to me yet when the vaseline was allegedly put on GSP’s back.
BJ was doing the rubber guard in the second, which was before the Vaseline was applied between the second and third rounds.
Exactly! These morons have no idea how crucial that is. The VERY first time they went to the ground, which was in the second round, BJ couldn’t retain the rubber guard because GSP’s back was greased up. Had he been able to, this fight could definitely have gone in a different direction. BJ is always locking guys up in that position and setting up submissions this way. You morons saying that it wouldn’t have changed anything have no idea what you’re saying.
I’ve always liked Penn and St. Pierre, but GSP is questionable now. If you do some research, he’s gotten in trouble for this in the past.
I went back through the DVR’d fight and you can clearly see the vasoline incident between rounds 2 and 3 and you can clearly see the NSAC official wipe it off with a towel. However the same exact thing happened earlier, between rounds 1 and 2 as well, which occurred before BJ pulled rubberguard. You can clearly see GSP’s cornerman go to GSP’s back/shoulders with the vasoline. They then cut to a different shot so it’s unclear if that portion was wiped off too or not.
I don’t think for even the slightest second that this determined the outcome or even created any sort of substantial disadvantage, but it was very interesting to go back and see it happen after the first round, and then shortlyafter watch GSP slip right through BJs rubber guard like nothing. I think the conspiracy theorist out there might get a little excited over this but I don’t think we can really put much stock in it at all.
If it did happen earlier between rounds 1 and 2 as opposed to 2 and 3 then Penn has a much more legitimate argument, though if you look at the GIF linked above it was applied more to his shoulders than his back and I’m not sure the spot where it was applied would have affected Penn’s rubber guard.
At first thought, I didn’t think the vasoline project would make much difference for Georges. But the more I think about it, and some of the above posts are shining good light on, is maybe it did create an unfair disadvantage. BJ is so good at controlling guys from his guard whether it be from mission control or from a high full guard, but either way he is great at controlling guys in his guard and then working in some offense. It was very interesting seeing the vasoline go on his back and shoulders after the first round and then see him cut through BJ’s rubber guard almost seconds later. I was shocked (I think we all were) at the ease of Georges’ passing ability. He literally made BJ look like a jujitzu novice. It’s a tough call. I definately feel uncomfortable making excuses for BJ (even as a Penn fan) and I definately feel uncomfortable taking anything away from Georges’ performance. It will definately be interesting to see what happens when the powers-that-be start sorting this out after putting everything together.
Keep us posted on this one. (Like you wouldn’t anyway, you guys are always on the ball)
The only thing is, BJ never got a chance to try rubber guard again because GSP would land in guard and be in half guard a half second later. It’s a non-issue.
“Exactly! These morons have no idea how crucial that is. The VERY first time they went to the ground, which was in the second round, BJ couldn’t retain the rubber guard because GSP’s back was greased up”
Indeed. Except the complaint apparently (based on every article I have read) focuses on something which happened AFTER that. No one, except one commenter below, has alleged that it happened before the break between the second and third round. See the first part of my comment for the rest of the story. BJ never had a chance to pull rubber guard after that because from the beginning of the third round on, he was in half guard before BJ could do anything.
give me a break bj u got poned thank u george 4 stoppin penn. thats r canadian destroyer loved it.
Bj with the excuses, I love it. What a sore looser. Why can’t he just admit that he got schooled, hes making himself look like just a bigger goof.
Man, I wanted GSP to lose that fight. I really hope that Alves, who I dont care for either, whoops his ass. Next thing we need to see is GSP vs Anderson Silva. I would love to see GSP get his ass handed to him.
wont happen
I guess I wouldn’t be surprised if BJ simply walks away from fighting. He is just not one to sit around and play second fiddle. Yes, he is still lightweight champ but the stigma of being destroyed last night after all the talking he did is going to follow him around for a long time, maybe/probably forever. I don’t see him dealing with that. To him it’s either be the best, or don’t bother. My best guess is he walks away; disgracefully.
Even if you do hate GSP, nobody can deny is skills.
Doesn’t change the fact the BJ was owned by GSP in every facet of the fight.
Stay at 155 Penn
yeah this was a strong example that bj should stay at 155. he might be able to fight at ww but not the top guys.. like if anderson went to 205agian and fought rashad or rampage…. its just too much to chew… bj looked a little pudgy, like he had problems making that weight. that extra 15 lbs hurt his conditioning
wow thats a bad example you seriously think Anderson Silva cann’t hang with Rashad or Rampage? what a stupid comment he would own that division if he didn’t have so many friends in it like Machida / Shogun / Wanderlei Silva.
Fixxer, man I pity you, what a good thread you made, you hoped GSP got beaten by BJ Penn, that didn’t work, now you hope for Alves to beat GSP, next you want to see Anderson SILVA beat up GSP, what’s next after, You will want Brock, Randy or even Frank MIR for a Match up with GSP in order to see GSP beat down…
You might not like GSP and I respect that but come on, he beat down fair and square everyone of his opponent without trash talk and deserve some respect for his winning!
I lost all respect I had for BJ Penn after these allegations… Sore Looser, trash talkers who didn’t not back his $hit… I didn’t not see any post fight interview and comments any where about the fight…
He dominated BJ. I give him that. He has class…and is probably a good person. You cant tell me there is not a fighter that you see, that you think….man I want to see his ass get handed to him. You dont even have to have a reason. Well GSP is that to me. There is something about him that drives me crazy. I just dont like him. The dude has to be gay…i mean, cmon. There are some cool gay people out there though….but I just cant stand the guy. I am not taking away from this victory though dude. I was a full out domination.
wow he gets his ass kicked then whines like a girl hahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why the **** Would you [fixxxer] want to see the best athlete in MMA get beat. Did you see what kind of physical shape he was in {GSP}. BJ’s sorry ****’s ass talked all the **** that could come from his little girly mouth then had too eat his own ****, and on top of it pretty much said GSP cheated, he really is the big **** I always knew he was, what a sore loser. I can’t wait to see Florian too smash him as well. Who’s a quitter now.
I dont think that GSP cheated…and I dont think that he needed to. GSP is the top welterweight by far. I am not taking that away from him. He is in great physical shape as well. I never once said anything different, but like i said above….I just dont like him. My own opinion. Anderson Silva would own him…..my opinion as well. I would love to see it, but i think it would be just like this fight…just GSP on the other side. I dont care for Alves either…but i will be cheering for him. The only division that is competitive is LHW. Besides that, and HW…the divisions are owned by one guy. Soon Lyoto will be that for LHW as well, but my main point is, im not hating on any of you guys, just my opinions.
how much does vaseline help?
Like most things it all depends, though vaseline on GSP’s back would have likely helped him slip out of Penn’s guard and pass but considering how sweaty he was anyways I’m not sure how much of an additional affect it would have had really.
Havent been on here in a while Kris…things are looking much better. When u first started this you were gettin 2-3 comments per article….congrats, its come a long way.
let’s face facts with all this bashin crap. BJ talked **** and now has to eat his words for throwing the towel in . plain and simple . Gsp’s trainer said it right, ” Bj will have a lot of razors to swallow” and now Penn wants to make excuses? juat face it you lost and move on . be gracious in defeat!!
BJ Penn should be ashamed of himself. I am embarassed for him, so maybe that will help. He proved last night, what most people probably knew or suspected; that he is far from the best in any capacity. GSP schooled him, beat him, and BJ quit…the defeat on Penn’s bloodied face gave me more pleasure than a skin book and a bottle of lube. maybe when Florian beats him, he will retire and we won’t have to listen to the absolute refuse that spews from his 12 year old mind. Vaseline…maybe it was too windy? or the lights were too bright?? excuses are the testimony of the ulitmate loser.
seemore, that was awesomely said bro I totally couldn’t agree with u more Bj’s a puSs*.
Penn has become a joke. He makes excuses after every loss. He’s completely classless. He’s the exact opposite of GSP. Penn was thoroughly dominated in all facets of the fight.
I hope Penn “quits” again, takes his ball and goes home and never comes back. His attitude is a disgrace to some of the other great fighters.
See what happens when you mouth off and take your “mind and the mental battle BS” over work ethic……
Penn, YOU were worked over relentlessly, and YOU could’nt even finish the fight.. YOU LOSE.
But mark my words people, very soon Mr.Penn will do what he does best,, use his mouth: “the vasilene, the weight, the lights when I was on my back were in my eyes, not fair not fair!”.
BJ needs to re-evaluate his position in the UFC and choose the high road, but I doubt it.
JMO
This complaint shows that BJ is a terrific fighter, but one the poorest champions ever to grace the octagon. First he calls out GSP after he hasn’t even defended his own belt and then when gets simply dominated in the stand up and on the ground, he comes up with some bs like this! He needs to get past “I’m god and holier than thou” ego and face it that he lost and needs to stick to his division. I’m sure if it went to a decision he would of asked for a re count of the judges score cards too.
This is just BJ trying to make an excuse. I dont know if this is fighter bashing but im sorry if it is but this is exactly what happens when you are rich and dont have to work hard for anything so everytime something bad happens to you you go ahead and blame others for your performance. Again im sorry if this is fighter bashing.
If it’s got anything to do with wealth (which I doubt) it would be because his parents are rig, not him personally. People that don’t inherit wealth are a lot differen from people that do.
Yes but this has been a common occurence with BJ blaming others instead of him finishing the fight or performing.
I never said BJ didn’t try to blame others for stuff. Re-read my comment.
bfree…i vehemently disagree that ‘this complaint shows that BJ is a terrific fighter…’ on the contrary, i think this shows that he is NOT a terrific fighter, but a terrific complainer. it also reveals how disrespectful a person he is. i would be happy to never see him fight again.
Yeah maybe i gave him a little too much credit but I still think BJ is a terrific fighter, in his weight class, but i totally agree with you on the terrific complainer
BJ camp can keep their losers attitude with excuses .can’t wait to see what excuses they gone come up with after is futur loss against a smarter and better fighter Kennny Florian.(in my opinion with is fastest win against joe stevenson and a impressive win over a tough Roger Huerta KenFlo prove that).After that,BJ will be able to take days off as much as he want because most mma fans wont care about him anymore!
This whole thing really has a poetic sense of irony. Penn, as we all know has obviously stated his belief that GSP is a quitter. I always found this funny. Like GSP has pointed out, he has had to work for everything in his life, and he always treats his (2) defeats as learning experiences, rather than spout out excuses about them, which is admirable, and is not the mark of a quitter. GSP is willing to learn from mistakes, and evolves his game visibly from fight to fight. He is honest about errors in his mentality or his game, and is humble and honorable enough to admit them, and improve upon them. Quitters don’t do that. They make excuses as long as they can, and when push finally comes to shove, and they can’t put up, they quit…usually making another excuse.
BJ has made excuses about 3 of his 5 defeats (I don’t know if he made an excuse for losing the machida or pulver fight). He says he lost to Hughes because of a broken rib, he claims his loss to GSP in their first fight isn’t even valid – a mark of unrealistic/poor judging, and now this vaseline thing. The point is, even if all these excuses are completely, 100% valid, a true warrior would not need to constantly fall back on them. BJ would maybe state them, but still have the humility to say that he does not take anything away from the victor, and that they deserve the win. I don’t believe that is how he thinks, I believe that BJ really thinks he is always the better fighter, and unhappy chance and circumstance are what beats him.
In regards to his loss against Hughes, and the broken rib: you’re in a fight, if you expect to walk away unscathed…well…I don’t know…you’re in a fight, that’s not how the cookie crumbles – crap happens. There have been other fights where injuries have made a fighter who otherwise could have pulled out a victory lose. In regards to his loss against GSP the first time: BJ states he was never hurt as bad as GSP, ‘Just look at his face.’ Great, you gave him two injuries in the first round (one because of an eye poke), and GSP still showed the preservation to keep on fighting. BJ did nothing to punish GSP and make good on his advantages in the 2nd and 3rd. GSP controlled the fight. The argument that GSP sustained more damage, and therefore should have lost is ridiculous. Obviously, that damage was not significant enough to prevent GSP from still being able to fight, and not only fight, but to win the last two rounds. I don’t think I need to address this vaseline issue. BJ was outclassed wherever the fight went. He wasn’t winning the standup, the clinch, or the ground game. It wasn’t close. GSP was simply better that night. There is no excuse. I think BJ believes he can save some dignity in light of a resounding defeat like this by trying to convince people there was a reason for his poor performance. Obviously, he is only losing more respect.
The bottom line is that until BJ is able to do some soul-searching, and find the strength to admit that he may not be the best right now, there will always be another excuse. It’s just a defense. I also just wanted to point out that there is a poetry in what happened last night. BJ sustained an eye injury and a broken nose just like GSP did in their first fight. BJ has always been accusing GSP of being mentally weak and a quitter, and yet GSP came back from losing their first fight, and BJ was not able to do that last night, and had to throw in the towel. Like GSP’s trainer and another poster mentioned, ‘BJ has a lot of razors to swallow.’
Listen, I think BJ is a great fighter, the best at lightweight, and I take nothing away from that. But he needs to be able to admit when he loses, and until he can do that, at least I will never be able to respect him as a mentally tough, true warrior that he claims to be.
Sorry for the lengthiness…I had to get it off my chest.
Great post homey!!!
I totally agree!!
For those of you launching attacks against either fighter, posters, etc, let’s be very clear here on a few things:
1) A complaint was filed. That is a fact.
2) Dana White did admit that something occurred.
3) Jonathan Snowden and other people at the show saw the incident occur with the NSAC official reprimanding the cornerman.
Whatever side you come on as far as this issue is concerned, at least acknowledge what did take place. You can disagree or agree as to whether or not it had an effect on the fight, but to ignore the story at hand and dismiss it is foolish.
This should not even have to be stated. Any excess vasiline from Georges back(and it clearly is excess, because the vas was applied to GSP’s face, not directly to the back)pales in comparison to the vasiline that is transfered from Georges face through any number of contact points. As long as it is legal to apply to the face there can be nothing made about transference from a facial application. This in mind and the fact that everyone pretty much agrees that the outcome of the fight would not have changed means that this just needs to be forgotten about. The other option is to ban vas from UFC all together.
If this vasoline issue is true,then that cornerman should be banned.I truly doubt it would have mattered as GSP was just too good in every aspect of the fight game.It’s sad that his performance might get tarnished by the foolishness of his cornerman,but again,I truly don’t think it would have mattered.See how easily he passed BJ’s guard and gnp’d him,that wasn’t due to vasoline.Also,it’s funny how the MEDIA reports something and everyone just takes it as fact and jumps on the hate wagon.I personally haven’t heard BJ say a single word about the fight let alone any complaints from him,and all the pre-fight trash talk was just to hype the fight.I guess for alot of ‘fans’it’s not about the skills as much as it’s a popularity contest.
From everthing I’ve seen it was unintentional and won’t be an issue.
“I personally haven’t heard BJ say a single word about the fight let alone any complaints from him,and all the pre-fight trash talk was just to hype the fight.I guess for alot of ‘fans’it’s not about the skills as much as it’s a popularity contest.”
Except for the complaint he filed. That’s a bit of whining about the loss, yes?
Was it BJ who filed the complaint?
This is why i like MMAFRENZY, lots of insite before and after one of the most entertaining UFC’s in a while.
I think people who are not fighters that have to face Machida are realizing why no one engages in a slugfest with him, very impressive finish just before the bell.
Vaseline or not, GSP has found his formula for winning and i expect the same scenario against Alves except Thiago is not as good on his back, he’s a straight striker.
First of all, I have been watching St Pierre for over 4 years now and have been his fan since I first seen him fight. BJ Penn is what I call a sore loser. He initiated this fight with St Pierre because he thought he got cheated when they fought in 2006, he gased out because of his conditioning and lost. Conditioning is part of being a MMA fighter, Penn needs to realize that. What he should’ve realized is that St Pierre is a completely different St Pierre that he fought in 06′. St Pierre gets better and better with each fight, that is strictly because of his discipline and training. BJ Penn will always be a whiner and a baby if he loses, will always come up with some excuse. BJ Penn is probably one of the most talented fighters I have seen, but he wastes it. St Pierre is the best pound for pound fighter because of his dedication, thats admirable. Anderson Silva comes in at a close 2nd, but lets remember Silva has 4 losses and St Pierre only has 2. St Pierre would probably give Silva his toughest match if he went up in weight class, but he would never do it because St Pierre isnt cocky and he’s not stupid enough to fight a bigger man. Penn’s ego cost him this fight, he has no one to blame but himself.
Oh and I forgot..I could see fear in Penn’s eyes after the first round. You could tell he was way in over his head and he knew it, St Pierre went in with a stradegy and it worked, thats what he does. He studies his opponents finds their weaknesses and defeats them. The funny part is that I kept hearing from all my friends.. ” St Pierre will want to keep it standing up because of Penn;s ground game” St Pierre kept trying to take Penn to the ground because he’s confident on the ground. Personally, I think his ground game is VERY underrated. Did anyone catch the statistics before the fight? St Pierre has spent less than 5 minutes on his back in the octagon, who else can say that?
St Pierre has spent less than 5 minutes on his back in the octagon, who else can say that?
Probably Houston Alexander, because if he hits its back it doesn’t take his opponents long to submit him.
BJ seemed to want to clinch -BIG MISTAKE – hindsight is 20/20 i know but, i gotta say i don’t understand- KO standing in 1st was his best chance.
was great fight.
alves GSP should be too
the weight divisions should be changed,
and the weight that is counted should be what thon fight night.
it’s warped to have guys cutting, dehydrating s a major factor.
and then guys like gsp and anderson who have the physical ability to basically weigh in healthy and then gain enough weight to put them in the next heavier division by the day of the fight, have an advantage. maybe their ancestors survived droughts… and this is a survival game an extension of joe rogans fear factor sort of thing.
i’m not saying anything against GSP/Silva they are great as their hype at everything – legitimtely , but
still the thought remains.
the math seems questionable to me anyway
-JUST ADDING 10 or 15 or 20 lbs (as it stands) seems arbitrary doesn’t it?
realize that 170-185-205 are not proportional-
not sure if there should be a super HW – or perhapsa 205- 230ish class – dunno, but there might be enough UFC fighters these days to fill the ranks
in early MMA in didn’t matter as much but nowadays there is more common skill set awareness so the size seems to matter more.
russiandoeboi
The rules are the same for everybody, conserning the weight cutting anyone can cut the weight, and they do so. So its not really an advantage.
I think he was referring to how GSP and Silva have freakish genes for being able to cut with no effect.
There’s people that are more capable of cutting weight the day of the event than others as well.
I suppose if we’re talking about changing the rules because some fighters seem to have better genes for cutting weight than others, we should start talking about how some fighters have better genes for being faster or stronger. And we should have height classes, since some fighters genes give them a better reach than others, I mean, we have to make it “fair” right….
true obviously,
but some guys bodies are better able to cut than others, so that becomes part of the equation. whereas weighing in before the fight would negate the bodies ability to de-re-hydrate
If they weighed in immediately before the fight, it would change the sport completely. Urijah Faber would be in the UFC fighting at 155, BJ would be fighting at 170, GSP/Alves/Hughes/serra/fitch would all be at 185…maybe GSP/Alves even at 205, Silva/Bisping/Marquardt/Hendo/Franklin/etc would all be at 205, some Rashad/Vera/Wandy/a couple others would stay at 205, then Rampage/Griffin/Chuck/Randy/Rua/Coleman/Machida would be at HW… I don’t like that idea. I also think that if you take weight cutting away from the sport, a lot of guys would watch their weight a lot less closely, and you’d end up with some fighters being in worse conditioning.
I also reiterate my point that if you want to change the weigh-in time based on the fact that “some fighters’ bodies are just better at cutting weight then others’” Well…that kinda defeats the point of competition, because some fighters’ bodies are just faster than others’, some fighters’ bodies are just stronger than others’. Some fighters’ bodies naturally recover faster between rounds. Some fighters’ bodies naturally recover faster from getting clocked. Some fighters’ bodies are more resistant to getting KOed. Its a real slippery slope to say, “Oh we’re going to change the rules because some fighters have a natural advantage in this area,” because that’s what everything’s about, some people will have a natural advantage over others in certain areas, period.
if you have watched the replay over and over again like i have of this supposed vaseline rub down you will most likely come to the same conclusion that i have…
What Vaseline?
the trainer gave GSP a shoulder squeeze, to help him relax and loosen up a bit… there is NO noticeable back rubbing, there is no noticeable vaseline being left behind, if there was it would have been more shiny…
maybe from now on there should be a ” no touching the figher rule ” in between rounds to prevent anything like this occuring again…
hell the water that was poured down GSPs head and back at the begining of the fight was prolly more of a “issue” than the supposed vaseline that was on his shoulders, NOT his back….
i dont think bj made this claim anyways…
i think it was his corner, they threw in the towel, they did smack talking just as much as bj, but you are like the company you keep, and bjs camp is full of cya at the beach bums
justin is right – that the genetic’ weight cutting advantage would still exist.
BUT a thing is about pre fight weigh in’s
is that there would be much smaller weight discrepancies DURING THE ACTUAL FIGHT.
NOBODY CAN GO FROM 170 TO 187 in an hour unless they max their credit card at ben and jerry’s instead of warm up
sorry for multiple post is that if you want to take justins point which i agree on also) – that reach etc is an advantage – than you might as well scrap weight divisions
which i could accept – although – again todays mma is evolved far from ufc 1 and gracie domination – so i think weight divisions are a good idea – and if they exist they should be under the best system possible. the scoring system also must be designed to suit THIS SPORT
I didn’t say to scrap weight divisions, my point was that if you are going to change weight divisions/weigh-ins based on the fact that some fighters are naturally/genetically better at cutting weight, you have to add height divisions, because height gives an advantage, and that’s based on genetics too, and if we’re going to changing weigh-ins to take out one aspect of genetics, you should add height divisions too. Then maybe we should time guys punching speed, and have speed divisions…
Ooops, submitted too early. I meant to add that I agree that the current scoring system has a lot of flaws when it comes to scoring MMA, but I’m not sure what other scoring system you might implement.
I would like to chime in my thoughts on the comments suggesting GSP couldn’t hold his own against Anderson Silva.
First off, I think it’s a crock-o-****e that Dana White has basically refused to even consider giving us fans this dream fight. 2 of the 3 best pound for pound fighters in the world, and the most dominate UFC fighters in the last decade. I am a huge fan of both.
With that being said, to me GSP has earned more credibility in my books by defeating bigger names and being given tougher fights.
On GSP’s list of notable wins we have (Penn, Fitch, Serra, Hughes, Koscheck, Sherk, Trigg, Parysian)
On Silva’s list we have (Henderson, Franklin, Marquardt)
Clearly GSP’s dominance in his weight class is far more impressive than most of the lesser names Anderson Silva is given to fight. (Irvin’s and Cote’s)
Forgetting about past fights though, lets compare the two fighters. Anderson Silva is forced to cut a lot of weight to make the 180lb middle-weight division (and is a natural 205lber) whereas GSP is just naturally HUGE at welter weight without need for significant weight drop. No denying the fact that GSP comes into his fights with a much more lean, muscular physique than Anderson. I think the power and strength advantage actually would go to the welter weight, GSP in this one.
On their feet, it’s tough to deny that A. Silva is the best striker in the game, but his lack luster performance against Cote has me scratching my head. Not to mention, he was losing both fights to Leuter and Henderson before submitting them late in rounds. Overall, yes Silva is the better striker, but if he can’t knockout Cote, how the hell is he going to take out GSP?
What it all comes down to in my opinion is the ground game and wrestling abilities of the French Canadian. GSP is by far one of the best ground-n-pounders in the game today and his wrestling skills are on another level from Silva. I personally don’t see GSP getting caught in any submissions from the guard of Anderson. Period.
We all know GSP can go the distantace in a 5 round marathon like he did against Fitch. He can submit u in seconds by working his ground game like he did Hughes or he can beat you until your corner throws in the towel with his ground and pound game like we saw against Penn. Yes, Anderson is a great striker with knockout power and has incredible Jiu-Jitsu, but I have to give the slight edge to GSP in this one.
What an incredible fight we are being deprived of! I want to know who the best lb for lb guy is in the WORLD. Fedor is a little too big for these guys, but Silva and GSP are damn near the same height and should fight either at 180 or a catch weight of 175.5. Man, that would be awesome!
By 180 I meant 185. The middle-weight class.
Cheers.
“Overall, yes Silva is the better striker, but if he can’t knockout Cote, how the hell is he going to take out GSP?”
Except that Cote has never been knocked out, and GSP got knocked out by Matt freaking Serra.
Why are you saying that Dana refuses to give us this fight anyways? It still might happen, but Alves gets his title shot first. I haven’t seen anything anywhere that said Dana is refusing to give us GSP v. Anderson.
The loss to Matt Serra was the BEST thing that could ever happen to GSP. It showed him not to under-estimate anyone in a fight. After that loss GSP came back to the Octagon 10x better than ever before. He dominated Koscheck at his very own game, wrestling. He destroyed Hughes with his own strength, pure ground control and he easily redeemed himself my brutalizing Serra for 2 rounds in their rematch. Yes, he got caught, it happens. Yes, he was very ill going into that fight, but he didn’t use it as an excuse. He is now a much better fighter for it.
Don’t know about you but since that loss to Matt Serra you speak of, GSP has been the most dominant, unbeaten fighter in the UFC with wins over a handful of big name guys.
Again I think GSP’s strengths are Silva’s weaknesses. It would be a great bout to see, but we are running out of time. Silva has expressed his interest in retiring once his current contract is up and currently all the hype is to have him fight at an already crowded 205lb division.
Dana needs to make this fight happen.
I never said that GSP hasn’t gotten better since then or anything. And I wasn’t trying to negate any of GSPs accomplishements by bringing up the Serra fight. My comments were geared solely towards the comment you made about Silva not knocking out Cote, so how could he knock out GSP. My point was, Silva would be able to make contact on GSP, and if Matt Serra was able to knock him out when he made contact, Anderson Silva would be able to knock him out when he makes contact. GSP has been knocked out, while Patrick Cote has never been knocked out in his career.
Aye, I see what you are saying, mate.
I just don’t see GSP getting knocked out by Silva. That was my point really. Not because his chin is harder than say that of Cote’s but because his style matches up much better against A. Silva.
1) He would never get caught up in the clinch the way Franklin did.
2) He wouldn’t stand there on his feet taking shot after shot like Leben did.
3) He wouldn’t throw untimely shots, leaving him wide open like Irvin did.
I suspect if they ever did fight the fight would go to the ground almost immediately. GSP would surely take his ground game assault to The Spider and not try and trade knees or elbows with the Brazilian.
I really want to see this fight! =)
I agree 100%!!! Silva wouldnt know what to do, he has NEVER fought anyone of St Pierre’s calibur. I think St Pierre could take Silva, why wont they give us that right? Who has refused it, anyone know??
“Who has refused it, anyone know??”
Exactly, no one has “refused” this fight, to my knowledge. The only thing thus far set in stone for GSP’s or Anderson’s future is their next opponent, that’s it.
hmm, it looked like GSP was going to win the fight either way…but you still have to call a spade a spade. i havnt seen any other fights where corner people rubbed anything on their fighters backs/shoulders when they were fighting opponents that rely heavily on jiu-jitsu or otherwise.
A very good arguement could be made that that GSP was sweaty, etc…but there is a reason you cant rub slick **** on people’s backs in fights…wheather its Round 1, 3, 4, whatever. Its why you or I can’t go dynamite fishing (although a good time) and say “i would have caught the fish anyways.” lame example…but i hope you get my point. GSP could have won clean in that fight, most or all of the vasoline might have been gone during the fight, but the corner guy either knew what he was doing to give GSP an unneeded advantage or he was too stupid to be in the corner.
BJ quit, he lost, whatever. If the **** on GSP’s back did affect him in getting the rubberguard or anything else, then he has a right to be pissed. if it didnt, then GSP’s cornerman did a ****ty thing by putting BJ in a place to make the complaint.
Markus J
Was talking about wanting to see GSP an Silva fight know who the best pound 4 pound fighter is. Guys flip floping weight divisions will not tell us who the best p4p fighter is…..
Fedor p4p HW
Silva p4pMW
GSP p4pWW
So if GSP fought Silva and won would he still have to fight Fedor at his heavy weight division to see if hes the best p4p fighter?
The whole debate is useless. There all the best in the world at there own weight…period.
With B.J., out of the best P4P fighter debate after being dismantled by GSP, I agree it is now a 3 man show. Fedor, Georges and Anderson. There are two potential fights involving those 3 names and unfortunately for us, neither seem possible in the foreseeable future, if ever. I agree it would be very hard to rate the best P4P fighter in the world and it’s more a matter of opinion than anything else.
I also agree flip flopping weight divisions is pointless, if the guy hasn’t even defended his own title yet. I was so against BJ being handed a title shot against GSP without even a tune up fight to establish himself in the ranks of the welter-weight class first. But Dana seems to favor certain fighters. If Dana can reward Penn for absolutely nothing, why can’t he grant us a fight between GSP and Silva?
First of Fedor is the best heavyweight by far.. however the heavyweight division doesnt really have any good fighters, at least not consistent. I think the only one who could give Fedor trouble would be Mir.. he looked pretty darn good his last fight, I have NEVER seen Mir throw so many punches, he had some hands.
Gotta agree with you on both accounts, Lisa. To me the most dominant fighter in the history of MMA and the Heavyweight division is none other than Fedor. By a landslide. He has beaten the who’s who and has looked damn near unstoppable.
As for your comments on Mir… He sure did look amazing in his last fight. I was shocked by his performance. Never seen him look that light on his feet, that good cardio wise and that precise with his striking. Can’t wait for him to take on Lesnar again and end all the hype. But to say he is ready for Fedor… I think he still has plenty of work to do! =) Barnett is the 2nd best in my humble opinion!
Of course we still would like to see it though.
Any fighter knows that by not replying to the Doctor when being asked questions (as BJ did), the fight must be stopped, as the Doctor was unable to assess BJ’s mental condition…Because of this fact, BJ took the easy way out and quit! And, by the way, every corner uses Vaseline…But I didn’t know Vaseline can contribute to a person fatiguing themselves out; or that it would prevent a fighter from defending themselves in the stand-up action…After hearing of the Vaseline b.s., I think my grand-father said it best: “A warrior is someone of honour, who does not seek death but is neither afraid of it…BJ Penn is definitely not a warrior, but simply a little whiner!”
Every corner uses Vaseline on the fighters face. You are not allowed to apply it anywhere else.
Yeah I never thought bj had a justified shot at the WW belt seeing he had lost his last 2 fights at 170lbs, agreed he should have had at least 1 tune up fight against a top ranked figher in that division. But its all bussniss right. With that being said, you never know gsp an silva might fight in the future. I dont think it should be for the middle weight belt unless gsp fights a top ranked 185er first. again all bussiness.
OK OK.
where’s a GIF of the vaseline being rubbed off already! Does it exist.
Who supposedly rubbed it off?!
the shoulder rub GIF doesn’t show anything important, but the back rub GIF combined with the rumours I’ve heard are troubling.
seeing it properly wiped off would put my mind at ease.
you tube video of NSAC worker attempting to wipe down GSP
I know Justin but I said penn blames others or says there was something wrong, I know you didnt say that, and never says you know what yes i got beat. Instead he will say he was injured or the judges screwed him now they might have in some situations and he could have injuries but thats no reason to blow it up and make something huge out of really nothing.
You’re missing my point. You said:
“This is just BJ trying to make an excuse. I dont know if this is fighter bashing but im sorry if it is but this is exactly what happens when you are rich and dont have to work hard for anything so everytime something bad happens to you you go ahead and blame others for your performance. Again im sorry if this is fighter bashing.”
To which I replied:
“If it’s got anything to do with wealth (which I doubt) it would be because his parents are ri(ch), not him personally. People that don’t inherit wealth are a lot differen(t) from people that do.”
Now you’ve responded twice about him making excuse. I was never arguing with you about that, just the assertion that it had to do with him being rich. Though, I will now argue with that, because it has since come out Keith Kizer was on to this during the fight and was trying to do something about it then, therefore validating BJ’s claims and making it more than “just BJ trying to make an excuse.”
Ok i see your point now its just that i think you were reacting to the wealth part and i was talking about the excuses part but i dont think i am wrong about that except for this occasion. In the first fight between him and GSP he got dominated the second and third round and blames the judges for seein him the winner when his only good round was round 1 he got out classed the next two rounds. I wouldnt be so mad at him for it if he trained harder. I can understand taking 2 maybe even 3 days tops for a break but not 5 days. He has sat back because he thinks he has all the talent in the world but obviously not because even if the Vaseline incident was that bad , it might be, he still got outclassed on the feet where he said he was gonna knock GSP out. And thatswhat i was saying because he grew up in a wealthy family. And probably didnt know how to work hard for the things he wanted. That doesnt make him a bad person but thats whats happens usually. Sorry for the long comment.
Sorry for not clearing that up the first time because i didnt actually say that but thats what i meant.
Everyone makes valid points BUT this isn’t the first time a fighter complained of GSP being “slippery.”
I complained about an ex being loose. I’m sure her response would have a bit of a different slant to it. It’s all about perspective, since there can be no way to check him as he was at previous fights….
True dbiz… but GSP was “caught” this time so it really doesn’t matter what any of us say, think, feel, etc. It isn’t even up to the UFC at this point, it is up to the NSAC and I think they will pass out some judgement.
Both fighters are great period..
But you have the show boat bj penn who lost my respect from that countdown they had on spike tv. Talking all of that trash about GSP. As i watched i seen that although great he’s to cocky..
GSP on the other hand during that show said this won’t be an easy fight bj is a tough opponent but i think i will win.. thats it..
Even after the fight going over to talk to bj showed how great of a fighter/person he is. Some people if trash is talked about them like that they would of just rubbed it in their face..
Last the vaseline lol.. yea that was the reason GSP landed so many punches. GSP was just to quick with his hands his takedown even his quick explosivness to get side control from bjs guard.. The cornerman should be fined if it was a honest mistake.. But it wasn’t done on purpose.