UFC Personalities, Judges Speak Out on Hamill-Bisping Decision
UFC President Dana White, UFC commentator Joe Rogan, and judges Jeff Mullen and Cecil Peoples have all released their thoughts on the UFC 75 bout between Matt Hamill and Michael Bisping. The fight was a split decision victory awarded to Bisping though the vast majority feel Hamill did enough to secure the win. More than a day has passed but the comments continue to come in on the controversial decision.
Thanks goes out to Fightlinker for rounding up the quotes.
Dana White (UFC President)
Do you know how many times I’ve been in the TUF Gym and after two rounds thought to myself, ‘Well, we’re going to a third round,’ and they come up with a winner? Sometimes what these judges do is hard to believe. But let me tell you this: I know what these kids put into these fights and there is no amount of money in the world that would make me take a fight away from them.
I don’t give a (expletive). We have a different model from boxing. Bisping is a big star in the U.K., but one loss doesn’t kill a guy in the UFC. Rampage Jackson beat Chuck Liddell and now he and Chuck are both huge stars. It’s a different thing than boxing. But bottom line, not a chance in the world I’d even think of trying to influence the judges.
These controversies that come up don’t mean a thing to me and they roll off my back with no problem because I know it’s all (expletive). We’re the top dogs and every little thing we do is news and people create these wacky (expletive) conspiracies. The bottom line is, we’ve embraced regulation, we want the sport to be regulated everywhere, but I’m not going to stop putting fights in the U.K. just because they don’t have a commission.
Joe Rogan (UFC Commentator)
I’ve gotten a ton of emails about this, and I’ve seen all the threads here about it so I thought I would make a reply. I thought that clearly the most damage in the fight was done by Hamill in the first round. That was really the only time anyone was hurt. Hamill hit Bisbing with a huge right hand and had him hurt very badly. Hamill got some takedowns after that, but was unable to do any significant damage from them.
As for scoring, I just walked in the door from London, so I’ll have to look at the fight again and see what I think, but I remember when the fight was over I thought that if I had to bet, I would say that Hamill was going to walk away with a close decision. The first round was clearly his, the second was probably his as well, and I thought Bisbing did enough to win the third.
At the time I honestly didn’t think the decision was that crazy. We see so many f***ing weird scorecards in the UFC that maybe I’m just getting used to it.
For instance, if I’m not mistaken, one of the judges in the Clay Guida vs Marcus Arellio fight scored the fight for Arellio, and I thought that was just f***ing insane. Fortunately the other two saw it for Guida and he walked away with the win, but it’s an example of how goofy the scoring can be sometimes.
As for anyone telling me what to say or who to put the emphasis on during the commentary, I can tell you 100% that it has never happened. The ONLY thing that the ufc has ever asked me not to do, was mention Pride by name when they were in the middle of negotiations and s*** was getting ugly between them. This was around the time when they had Wanderlei come into the UFC and challenge Chuck with a Pride T shirt on, and the UFC had felt like they were getting played and that Pride was using the negotiations to get free publicity for Pride in the USA and that they didn’t really have intentions to have any of their fighters come over here.
I thought regardless of the decision, the Hamill Bisbing fight was very entertaining, and both guys fought their hearts out. Coming on here and s***ting on Bisbing for his performance is just ignorant. He did his best against a powerful guy that surprised him with some new found skills and a good game plan. The decision isn’t going to hurt Hamill in any way, and in fact it probably made him some new fans. It’s certainly not going to hurt him in the long run with the UFC. If I was advising Bisbing, I would probably tell him to drop down to 185. He walks around at 205 with a little body fat, and if he changed his diet and concentrated on the lighter weight class I think it suits his frame more.
I think there have been some really insightful posts on here about scoring, and some very good suggestions. One of them that I think we should look in to, is announcing the scorecards after each round. That could possibly help, and the only downside I can think of is that it would make some guys that are ahead ease up and take fewer chances because they know they’ve got a win in the bank if they can just coast. A way around that would be finishing bonuses for a submission or KO.
Overall though, I think this decision outlines a real problem that we have in this sport using a scoring system that was designed for boxing. I believe we need to use a more comprehensive system that quantifies each aspect of the sport. It’s not going to be easy to come up with, but I think that decisions like this are going to eventually force a change. Personally, I prefer the scoring that they used in Pride where they judge the fight as a whole and count the damage being scored at the end more highly.
Jeff Mullen (Scored the fight 29-28 Bisping)
Hello to everyone on the Underground. I have been reading the underground for years. I used to post quite a bit. Then I decided it would be better for me to stay out of all the arguments. I want to thank all of you guys for being so nice to me through the years. I have seen almost no negative posts about me here until now.
I first started judging the UFC in 1996. I have been judging UFC almost twice as long as any other active judge. I am a former kick boxer and have been training grappling for 13 years. I am not here to argue with any of you or tell you that your opinion is wrong. I am only going to tell you why I judged the fight the way I did. Watch the fight again and turn off the sound. Commentary can color what you see.
No doubt Bisping dominated the 1st. He hurt Bisping with a right hand right off the bat and again near the end of the round. He out scored Bisping and busted him up. It was a very impressive round for Hamill but still a 10-9 round. Not dominate enough for a 10-8. Watch the beginning of the second round closely. When Hamill throws the jab, Bisping slips the punch and hits him with his own counter jab. It is hard to see on camera because Hamill?s back is to the camera. His back was also to Goldie who was talking like the beginning of this round was like a continuation of the 1st. If you look you will see that Hamill is facing me giving me a clear view of what is landing. Bisping was landing the jab again and again and not getting hit.
Hamill got 2 takedowns in rounds 2 and 3 but did very little with them. Bisping is using an active guard trying to turn for armbars and sweeps, Hamill is doing very little on top. Bisping is keeping him from scoring or improving his position. In the 3rd round Bisping actually lands more punchesd from the bottom than Hamill does from the top. In both the 2nd and 3rd rounds Bisping does more scoring. Striking.
Under pride style scoring Hamill would have won. He did more damage, but it was all in the 1st round. By 10 point must system Bisping won the fight 2 rounds to 1 . 29-28 Bisping. Sometime the angle you see the fight effects your decision. That is why they put the judges on 3 different sides.
BY THE WAY MARIO YAMASAKI THOUGHT BISPING WON ROUNDS 2 AND 3 ALSO. MARIO WAS THE REF AND HAD A BETTER VIEW THAN ANY OF US. I have never taken a payoff as some of you have suggested and never will. You may not agree with my decision but please don?t question my honesty.
Thank you
Jeff Mullen
Cecil Peoples (Scored the fight 29-28 Bisping)
I gave Bisping the second round, first because Hamill was beginning to run out of gas after the first round. Bisping fought like he wanted that fight. He came back aggressive [from the first round]. Hamill did take him down, but he did nothing with the takedown. Overall, Bisping was more aggressive. Hamill just held him down. Bisping’s punching was more effective.
I have no vested interest in either one of them. I could probably walk past both of them on the street and still not know who they are.
We have yet to hear publicly from judge Chris Watts who awarded the fight to Hamill with a score of 30-27. If and when he speaks on the fight I will pass it along.
To anybody who wants to become a more educated fan, I’d highly recommend reading an earlier interview with Jeff Mullen here describing what judges look for during a fight: http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Fighting/UFC/2007/07/06/4319090-cp.html
On Saturday, I saw it 29-28, Hamill, with the 2nd round being a close one. But yesterday after reading the interview, and rewatching the fight twice, I scored it 29-28 Bisping, with the 2nd round going easily to Bisping, and the 3rd round being closer than I originally saw it, but still going to Bisping.
Half the people won’t bother reading this, or try to take a second look and come at it objectively, but those of you who do will at least see just cause for a close split decision.
Dana White needs to realise that though he doesnt give an (expletive), fans are pissed and more of an explanation and concern from him might help. I do however like the way Joe Rogan, and the judges have come out. Lets me atleast feel like it wasnt rigged, and they atleast have an educated (yet flawed) reason for what happened.
It has always been the case like in Boxing, the home fighter always gets the close decision. Look at boxing over the years Hollyfield Vs Lewis for example, Lewis dominated the first fight but Hollyfield managed to get a draw. In my oppinion as a UK UFC fan I had Hamill down two rounds to One and although Bisping was the home fighter and the rounds were close the decision in my opinion was totally the wrong one, One thing is for certain this isnt the last fight between them and at least Dana will be happy as it will keep the fans tuned in for the remach.
Hamill won… bottom line. Someone needs to fix the judging: rds 1+2= Hamill rd. 3= Bisping. Simple as that 29-28 Hamill.
Hamill got ripped off plain and simple. Mirko, laid down–something smells with UFC right now. Anybody that thinks Randy is the best fighter in the world should have their head examimed. Fedor is the best of all time.
hamil won, Bisping danced around the whole first two rounds not looking to have any engagement with hamil. The worst part is Bisping talked **** afterwards telling him to go back to wrestling….shut up u winey b**** and take your larceny i mean descision….
I have heard it all Cecil Peoples said he gave the 2ND round to Bisbing because Matt Hamill Appeared to be running out of gas. What a crock of ****. HOW DO YOU SCORE “TIRED” YOU F***ING IDIOT.
Joe Rogan is the man. I agree with him about maybe changing the rules to Pride rules in regards to judging a fight. The round by round judging is good, but to evaluate the whole fight as a whole and not round by round, seems better to me.
I have about 10 well rounded MMA fans at my home. I have to beg people to watch the UFC after Dana big B.S with Tito. But they watched again…
Everyone agreed that Hamill won the fight hands down from the blows to the take down. But 2 minutes before the fight over, Rogan started Boasting Bisbing, and acting like there was some come back… Total B.S, Told my friends watch, Bisbing will win, UFC has a contract on this guy, they are in U.K and it happened.
Everyone I know, now thinks UFC is no better then the WWE. Rogan went on CUE to try to make everyone think that Bisbing did enough to win, cuz he knew he was. WAtch it over and listen to the announcers…
God I wish Pride was not bought by these dirt bags…
i think that ufc should have different match types. like the only way you can win is by tapout or knockout. no worries with the judges or anyone complaining. i knew that bisping of whateva his name is was going to win. its like boxing, everytime i turn around jermain taylor always winning in his hometown. i personally thought he loss to ouma. but i thought chuck liddel won versus keith but that just me. but maybe a draw on that fight. the whole hammil fight, bisping ran and barely hit the dude. i think he really suck and if he ddrop weight he is going to lose even more. the lower weight classes have the best fighters. st pierre, rich, the list goes on. he never fought a real ufc guy. but i still think the judges are fixed. they are fans just like anyone of us. and if i would be a judge and my favorite fighter or someone who i liked fight, i would be watching him more and that would play a major part in my results.for example, my favorite ufc fighter is ortiz, if im the judge he wont lose. but rampage vs henderson i thought henderson won by at least 1 or 2 pts. rampage is overated he only is good if there is a ring bcuz he can bounce off the ropes if knocked out. but ufc light and heavyweight division sucks. make them all lose weight and fight the big dawgs or get some fighters from elite(robbie lawler, nick diaz, those are the real fighters. (UFC GET SOME TALENT PLEEEEEEEEAAAAAASEE!!!!!!!! I M TIRED OF SEEING ONE GOOD FIGHT AND PAYIN FOR IT. START DRAFTING FOOTBALL PLAYERS, WRESTLERS FROM WWE AND BOXERS OR SUMTHIN. BUT U KNOW WHAT IM THE UFC BIGGEST FAN.
I think your cable box brodcasts a different event than the rest of us. You think Rampage lost to Hendersen? I don’t see anyway. He put up a fight, but he was just overpowered. He will be dominant against the middleweights though. About your different types of matches- To get permission from state athletics commisions, you have to have a time limit and rules. I think you need to stick to watching your WWE or F or watever so you can see people wack each other with garbage cans inside a ring that is rapped in barbed wire and on fire. And Robbie Lawler and Nick Diaz are closer to welterweight and lightweight, and also came out of the UFC. You want to see a good match, watch the Nick Diaz/Robbie Lawler fight from the UFC. One of the best fights ever. No offence, I just don’t agree with much that you had to say.
what an embarrasing moment for the UFC.. Bisping looked terrible, awful in fact. I scored the fight 29-28 Hammil, could have been worse than that. I almost scored the first round 10-8, in fact I think it should have been. I am almost done with the UFC
As far as I’m conserned, this matter is dead to me. The sky is still blue, stink still stinks, and until Fedor and Randy fight, Fedor is the badest man in the world. It was a close fight(I thought Hammil won, but that is an OPINION!)All that a decision is is 3 OPINIONS averaged into one. Maybe if judges worked like a jury and went into seclusion to discuss their OPINION, they could sway another judges OPINION. That is my OPINION.
Wow … I have to agree, Cecil’s explanation/retarded excuse is just flat out unbelievable, particularly because, well let’s see, he’s (supposed to be) a judge. So, we’re deciding rounds, and potentially even the fight, by how tired/fatigued a fighter may look (to you), and which fighter seems (to you) to “want it more?” WTF. That’s the best “explanation” that you can conjur up? That’s how you determined the winner? You should consider factoring in to your (retarded, bias) judging practices which fighter actually hurts the other one more, and CLEARLY dominates the fight. Un-freakin-believable. This was Hamil’s fight, hands down; everyone, including yourself, Cecil, knows it … for God’s sake, even the Brit’s know it. You’re a disgrace to the sport. Hopefully Dana White, who I unfortunately just lost a good bit of respect for, will grow some balls, and take steps to rectify this unfortunate incident, or at least ensure that no further instances of such blantant bias occur again in the UFC. He’s owes it to us, the fans.
My brother works in Vegas and says Mark Hunt, Fedor and a few other refuse to move into a corrupt organization with White in charge. He is another Vince McMahon and possible corrupt. Randy C is a great guy and can kick my ass, but I would take Q Jackson over him in a heart beat. Fedor would make Randy embarrassed Randy would **** his pants facing that guy. Liddel is a joke who preyed on weak competition and will never ever beat Jackson so from this point he is number two at best, but will lose again just like Mirko, mark this post.
Ok, without a doubt i appreciate the effort to explain the reasons behind what happened at UFC 75. But feel this is still a far more serious issue.
Dana: No comission….no fights(seems pretty simple as far as maintaining integrity). I used to defend you…but you probably don’t give a….
Mr.Rogan: One of the only reasons I am still keeping an open mind, and I thank you. Although it was odd you stayed quiet. I have watched the video several times, and I must say I fully disagree with the call that was made. The sad part is that because there is no commission to oversee the events, the consumer has no recourse or means to resolve this. That in it’s self leads to speculation, so why take the chance?
Mr.Mullen: After reading the posted prior interview I must ask you if judging criteria has changed since then? Effective striking/grapping/octagon control and agression.Is this correct? If so….shame on you!
Mr.Peoples: Cecil,Cecil,Cecil…sorry man but i wasn’t surprised to hear your scorecard. See above,study, implement please.
Who was it who said “You can’t win a fight backing up”(extreme lack of agression)
Bisping just made history……….
Are any of you football fans? Have you still watched football even though there have been numerous bad calls threw-out history. Its part of a sport. Don’t leave it in a judges hands. Hey Cinelli, Randy Couture has challenged Rampage,Fedor, and anyone in the world. I think you underestimate him but thats OK. Rampage is getting prepared for a long run as the undisputed champ. Fedor will come over to UFC and be Coutures final fight of his career. Randy will win too.
Scotchydow, I am not a world class fighter, but I am involved in the sport as a fighter in the southwest. I boxed Golden Gloves and was a stated wrestling finalist. I am not in the league with these guys, but I know the sport. Fedor is in a another planet. Much faster that Randy, bigger and stronger. In addition, he is a master on the ground. Go to you tube and watch his highlights, he makes Randy looks like he’s in slow motion. Fedor will outstrike Randy and his submission skills are better. For all of his wrestling background, Randy is more ground and pound than even Barnett who beat him. I respect your opinion and you are entitled to root for and believe what you want, but Randy C would get buried by Fedor. Keep in mind, I am the biggest Randy supporter as he is a class act. I just pray that the UFC isn’t corrupt and that we see the best against the best. Right now the jury is out on White and that is what is keeping Fedor out –believe me it ain’t fear. That Russian is beyond dangerous.
I am sickened by the decision in the Bisping and Hamil fight. I fought in Cali in the 90’s when it was illegal. I am a BJJ guy and know MMA.
How hard is it to figure out who wins a fight. Hamil damn near knocked him out in the 1st and controlled him throughout, taking him down at will while never getting hurt or hit. A retard could have told you who won this fight. Hamil clearly won the fight.
If these quotes are truly accurate, they are indeed pathetic attempts at damage control. Not since Roy Jones Jr. got ripped off in the 1988 Olympics has there been a worse decision. It doesn't matter from which vantage point one watched the fight from, Hamill dominated. From Mullen's vantage point, could he see Bisping's beat-to **** face? Peoples gives the second to Bisping "first because Hamill was beginning to run out of gas after the first round. Bisping fought like he wanted that fight. Overall, Bisping was more aggresive". He cannot be serious. Hamill clearly won the first two (sound on or sound off). In a big stretch, you might give the third to Bisping, but highly doubtful. If you're going to try to respond to the outrage, at least try to come up with something plausible.
Cinelli you have lost your mind if you think Fedor wont join the ufc because its corrupt…. He fought in Pride that was involved with Yakuza and fighters have admitted they fixed fights.
"Mirko, laid down" ahah no he got his ass kicked."My brother works in Vegas and says…" haha so working in vegas means he is some kind of expert on a fighter from Russia and a fighter from New Zealand.
"but I would take Q Jackson over him in a heart beat."
why are you comparing a Lightheavyweight fighter to a Heavyweight?
the beginning of the end for UFC. Dana is a joke that grew up lucky with the right people surrounding him with alot of money. He hasnt shown any wisdom, educated knowledge, or respect for the fans that has made him rich. What a joke Dana, the average high school graduate could do your job better than you. You got lucky being the president and now you mindlessly put off an image like you've earned your spot. Get a plausible education before you make ignorant comments Dana. You make Tito look smarter everytime you open your dirty mouth.
I think Fedor is a great fighter. But I do not think he would walk all over Randy like everyone thinks. I would not even call that fight. It could go either way. As far as the UFC being corrupt……stop watching it then. SCOTCHYDOW brings up a good point, all sports there are bad calls.
UFC 75 is over…..lets move on. Everyone that says they will never watch it again, then dont. I think a lot of people just starting watching the UFC for the past couple years and all of a sudden know everything about everything…..its sad. I even read in another post how one guy was gonna stop watching the UFC and start watching Pride……. yeah…… dude, did u see what the main event at UFC 75 was about?? Everyone that will always be a UFC fan…lets get pumped about Fight Night and TUF 6 next week!!!! Everyone else….have fun not watching the UFC and still talking about it online.
I can't imagine this going away soon. Newspapers(in north america and europe) and the net will make sure of this. After all the UFC has many critics and fans that will demand answers and are off to a good start. Dana wants MMA in the olympics. Good luck after saturday. Still a very sad time for MMA.
By no means do I think Fedor is scared to fight Randy Couture. It is a money issue, BUT Fedor will not walk over Randy Couture. I am not sure that Barrnett couldn't beat the both of them(Fedor never did fight him you know) I appriciate your opinion also, I just don't think Fedor will have as easy of a time with Randy as you do. I totally agree with FixXer when he makes his comments about rhe "know it all" new fans. GOOD RIDENCE!
Bisping 29-28. He looked up tight in round 1. Small advantage in round 2. Clearly better in round 3. Hamill winded after round 1- watch the fight again and see. Bisping was the better fighter that night. Lousy fight altogether but Bisping was the better that night.
that was the worst descison i have seen bisping ran the whole fight. bonnar descision over jardine was bad but this was terrible…the announcers were basicaly calling it a route for hamil… saying bisping should go to 185…..either way bisping is no rising star…. he an average fighter who has beaten avg competition…
I say he's on the rise only because he is undefeated his momentum is negligible and credentials questionable. He is only average at this point and would need to prove otherwise.
Toasty: "Bisping 29-28. He looked up tight in round 1. Small advantage in round 2. Clearly better in round 3. Hamill winded after round 1- watch the fight again and see. Bisping was the better fighter that night. Lousy fight altogether but Bisping was the better that night."
^^ You sound like Cecil: "He looked tired" so he must be losing right?
What fight were u watching? Hamill looked tired, but def. did enough to take the fight.
I sent Cecil a message on his website asking how he judges fights becasue his scorecard is always retarded
Enjoy your bankroll while it lasts Dana, if this kinda **** keeps happening hopefully it wont last very long and then you might " give a s***"!!!
If Dana doesn’t give a [expletive] then why should the fans?
The scoring and getting the winner right DOES matter and is essential to the sport. Otherwise its not a sport. How many people would watch March Madness or the NFL if the refs “don’t give a [expletive]” and we know the winner is preset? Why watch that.
So, if MMA can’t let the winner receive the win then I see no reason to watch.
I will absolutely boycott the next, and possibly subsequent, UFC pay-per-view to protest this, in my opinion, fixed fight.
Will it hurt the UFC - probably not - but at least I don’t walk around feeling like some dumb*** who had the wool pulled over their eyes.
no man no prob. what did you think about the liddel fight? im a know about the ufc rules man. i dont even watch that wwe stuff. but i really thought henderson won but by i was going for him. but it was actually a good fight. i have so many ufc dvds man and that robbie lawyer fight with diaz was good as hell. the old ufc when belfort was there is the best. but i know that ufc cant do that, i know about the time limit but you know how people always blaming stuff on the judges. but that would be a good idea for real though or at least make it 10min rounds. the old ufc was better, do you remember when you would see 220lb guys vs 180lbs guys? man that was crazy and the small guys was whippin on them. but i feel you on the review though. u got some points there. rampage shouldve been powering him man if you think about it. it seems like when fighters go to ufc they get soft. rich franklin will continue to dominate his division, i hope bisping dont go to that weight class. but u never know these days right? alright man. tell me what you think.
I am glad you took no offence, cause I mean no harm. I think Chuck fought a lot better than I gave him credit for right after the match, but Jardine surely outscored him with body kicks, and over the top punches. I truely think he has lost a couple of steps over the past year. I sugjested earlyer that he changes camps, to train with new people who will MAKE him train harder. I think Rampage’s hand game looks better than it ever did in Pride, and he seems he has his mind focused totally on fighting for once. I think it’s just another thing we disagree on, because I think he is going to have a long reign as champ in the UFC. He also has the body type where he could fluxuate between the HEAVYWEIGHT division, and LIGHTHEAVYWEIGHT division. As far as the 10 min rounds, I loved those also, but they won’t fly in the U.S. I would like to see a UFC tournament format overseas at least once a year though. I miss the old Vitor also. I remember I thought he was unstoppable, until Couture dismanteled him. I think we have more competitive fights in the UFC with the format they have now, but I would like to see a new way of scoring. And I still love the oldies. #8 “David vs. Goliath” in Puerto Rico was great. Keep watching and keep posting no matter what anyone says(especialy me,lol)
P.S. I hope Franklin wins, I put money on him, but he got f-ing destroyed last time!