UFC 81 Discussion
Posted by Kris Karkoski on Feb 2, 2008 at 2:41 pm ET63 Comments
Watching UFC 81 “Breaking Point” on pay-per-view or following along with MMAFrenzy.com’s live coverage? Share your predictions, thoughts, and reactions with the rest of MMAFrenzy.com all day long by posting any and all comments about the event in the comments section.
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Anyone want to post their predictions for the event?
Sylvia- He knows he has to win with a KO and will come out and throw in bunches and has excellent takedown defense.
Mir- With his experience he will fight smarter than Lesnar, utilize leg kicks and use any mistake Lesnar makes to pull a submission. As much as people tout wrestlers witnes GSP vs Hughes as to a wrestlers shortcomings. Not that Mir is GSP but still.
Horn – To much experience and savy; Nate hasn’t displayed the KO power to stop him.
Almedia – Was, and still will be a very tough well rounded fighter, Yundt just doesn’t have the skills or the experience coming from AFC
Griffin – Just a better all around fighter.
Lytle – Experience and quality of competition.
Eastman – I feel Eastman will take this one though it could go either way. It’s hard to say who is the better striker of the 2 but for some reason I give the edge to Eastman.
Heath – More experience against better opponents usually means a better fighter and skills. Saying that Babalu showed his weakness is interesting, he did but he is one of the best out there; anyone that thinks Boetsch can do the same is perhaps on crack.
Nakamura – From what I have seen and remember of Nakamura he should win this easily; superior skillset.
Frank mir will win along with nog and horn.
did the first prelim start yet?
ROB THE SAINT EMERSON
WOOOOO HOOOOO
1-0
THE BEASTMAN WINS CONGRATS 2 HIM
2-0
Can’t believe that went full 3 rounds, was sure someone was going to sleep.
damn heath i should of picked tim heath is a clown
brock is going to smash frank, probably with a choke like his last
Very interesting fights with several upsets, some boring openers, and some quick finish in the final prelims.
PPV is starting! Gleison Tibau-Tyson Griffin is first up.
I have decided I want Mir to win, I’m sure he needs the money alot more than Lesnar. After reading some of Brock’s interviews, he is talking alot of smack, without alotta MMA experience to back up the mouth. I also think the pay difference is a joke….almost half a million to Lesnar if he wins, and Mir gets 80000? WTH??
I forgot to add with my last post, that Mir is a real class act! From what I’ve read, Mir only has good things to say about Lesnar. I know Lesnar is only hyping the fight to sell more PPV probably, but he is the new kid, and should give Mir the respect he deserves!
Mir is gonna get his title back and Lesnar is one of many in his way!!!
I hope David is right! I’m sure Mir trained real hard for this fight, and I hope he get’s his belt back soon. Kinda suprised to see Serra fighting GSP again, would of liked to see Hughes/Serra fight instead.
GSP is the #1 contender! He just beat Hughes to get his rematch against Serra. Why does that suprise you?
Lesnar will get to fight a stand-up or ground and pound fighter next – clearly he cannot handle jujitsu.
That Lesnar-Mir fight was bull****!!
that was sweet!!! wtg mino!!!
How was it bull****? Lesnar will need a couple years and at leat 4-5 fights to fully gradp submission fighting; that’s the way it is.
Thumper said: “anyone that thinks Boetsch can do the same is perhaps on crack.”
Hmmm, watch out for that crack :>)
Well,I wanted Mir, but I doubted he was going to get it done but he did!!!!
Mir got lucky, it looked like he wasnt going to get out of the first round. i think they need to do it again. Lesner should have have been watching out for those submissons. Thats what happens when you underestimate your opponent!
Ha ha UFC Fan, I gotta say that was a huge suprise, Boetsch showed some really good skills and heath got his ass handed to him. Gee I think I was 5-4 tonight, way off my game. The Nog submission was a beautiful thing ass was Mir’s knee bar.
If the BS stoppage doesn’t happen, Lesnar wins tonight. Mir was a deer caught in headlights and wasn’t busy doing anything… he couldn’t believe what was happening. A blow to the back of the head and a 1 pt. deduction??? You have got to be kidding me. Lesnar was manhandling him, and working a submission was the last thing on Mir’s mind at that point… the stoppage allowed him to regroup.
Brock should go back to fake wrestling. Least he knows hes going to win because its in the script. Mir just powned him because of his experience. Did anyone saw Brock Tap, LOL. next time he should keep his big mouth shut.
Thumper says: “Ha ha UFC Fan, I gotta say that was a huge suprise, Boetsch showed some really good skills and heath got his ass handed to him.” Gotta respect a man that admits he missed one :>) Tim is very impressive, and this fight should open some doors for him.
well i think that we have to admit that lesnar is a powder keg of destruction. though mir won the fight as he should have i have to believe that brock is a force to be reckoned with in the future. if he is able to gain some experiece to enable him to counter the submissions he will go very far. at the very least he was exciting.
also i would like to remind everyone that though he spent some time as an actor he is a legitimate grappler on a national level
Let’s just start bringing all of the WWE wrestlers over to the UFC. Based on everyone’s support of Brock (oh, give him two more fights and he’ll be the champion), if you’re a great athelete you should get $200k on your first fight.
Great athelete doesn’t equal winner in the octagon. At least Dana got a windfall from setting this fight up. Brock lost, Frank won. Who cares about what Brock will do, he almost got his knee ripped off.
Good deal,I wish all the wwe fans in the world
had seen the Mir Lesnar fight.
Great fight,Mir showed Lesnar that it takes more
than gas out of your mouth to win when you fight
men,not clowns.
Welcome to Mr. Lesnar,hey,he got in the octagon and fought like a man.
Good show!
Lesnar has a much better Curriculum Vitae than 95% of MMA fighters. He has name recognition which is why he was worth the money. Plain and simple. Add to that he basically told WWE to thanks but no thanks and left the company when he was it’s biggest star.
I knew Lesnar could lose due to inexperience which is what happened. However he obviously had the match one at one point before the “Time out” given to Mir. If this IS Really the “Ultimate” fighting championship as it was when it started out Brock Lesnar would have won the match.
I think it is assanine to prohibit rear head strikes when your opponent makes a mistake and only offers the back of his head to strike.
Had this been early ie, Real UFC we would have had a different winner because Mir was completly dominated and about to tap prior to the school yard style “Timeseys”
does anyone else find it weird that mazagatti stood the fighters up when mir was clearly going to get put out, taking a point away from brock without giving any warnings, never seen that for such a small foul btw….and giving mir another chance on his feet… cause i did… hope mazagatti gets in ****ttt
Brock needs more experience plain and simple. He should not have been tossed in the octagon against a former champ in his UFC debut. Stupid move by Dana. Brock was beat my the better fighter. That’s that.
The problem I foresee and the big picture.. Brock got 200k for this fight. lol. That’s a ridiculous amount of money for a rookie MMA fighter. It will take him years, several fights, and Jijitsu training, before he is a true contender in the sport… until then, is Dana going to pay him 200k for every fight he does? lol! Don’t see it happening.. and you can’t keep putting him against the stars… he needs to start low and work his way up.
Stupid moves by dana…
1. too much money
2. too much hype
3. poor opponent selection
I highly doubt we will see Lesnar still in teh UFC in 2 years. Just my thoughts.
And to Jones. My take on it.
BS stoppage? Are you a MMA fan or WWE fan? This isn’t professional wrestling, man. This is a true combat sport with rules that help to protect the fighters. Rules such as no eye gouging, no hair pulling, and no punches to the back of the head in this case. You know, things you regularly see in fake fighting, such as WWE. Being Brock’s first trip to the Octagon and only second professional MMA fight ever, he should have been much more careful, aware and abiding of the rules of the Octagon.
Maz did the right thing by standing them back up. Though I wouldn’t have deducted a point from Brock, a warning had to be given. The point proved meaningless anyways, as Mir quickly submitted him.
Bottom line. Brock looked like a novice and left his leg wide open for the lock. Everyone saw that submission coming from a mile away. Rookie mistake from a rookie fighter. Just like his short lived NFL career it goes to show, you just can’t jump into any given professional sport and expect to be one of the best competitors because you are a highly skilled athlete in general. MMA fighters have been doing this for 5 to 30 years in some cases. Brock may have a wrestling background but he is YEARS away from being a contender or even a maincard fighter in the UFC.
He should go back to WWE while he still has some value left in his stocks. Though after tonight, I am not sure just how much that will be.
Markus J: I am a big fan of MMA… watch the rest of the PPV from last night… rear head strikes galore with not one stoppage being called. Throw in the fact that Mir was writhing around trying to get away with little defense and ZERO attempts at any kind of submission move at that point, and I have to wonder how you can look at the situation and agree with the stoppage/stand-up. Mir was trying to tuck his head to get away from the beating he was takin, Brock lands one punch to the back of his head (when that’s all he was offering) and he gets a stand-up and a point deduction. WHAT A JOKE. To everyone that keeps saying that the point deduction did not determine the outcome of the fight… no, the pt. deduction did not, but IMO the stoppage most absolutely did. After 30 seconds of that fight Mir was SHOCKED. The stoppage gave him the time he needed to regroup and get back to his gameplan.
You guys are so STUPID! Yes Brock lost the fight but he made the fight exciting. He does need so more experience in the ring but he is goin to be a beast in this sport if he continues to train. He’s a bigger version of Houston Alexander that every one drools over. This man will be a smashing machine.
When was the last time anyone saw a referee stop a fight and stand the guys up for just one hit to the back of the head?
I just read comment 36 and Jones is absolutely right!!!
Would have, should have, could have…
Mir Won. The stoppage was questionable, was more shocked by the point deduction. The Ref does have the closest view of what is happening, must have felt it was justified, probably based of the force of the blows being delivered. I would like to see Brock vs Silva next, let them stand and bang…
Meant Silvia in last post sorry…
My friends and I, who have watched and been fans of MMA for some time (some of us since the mid-90s) kept saying during the final bout of the night (Silvia/Nog) that Brock would have possibly broken either one of them in half… that Mir was the anti-Brock, his kryptonite if you will, due to his possibly being the best submission-heavyweight in MMA. I’m shocked to read that people actually think Brock is looking at another 5 years before being a major player… IMO, he already is. He had a former UFC champion on the ropes 30 seconds into his 2nd career fight!
I absolutly agree with Jones.
Brock Lesner needs to learn if he cant run with the big dogs .That he needs to stay on the porch. He got put in his place and needs to go back to where they play . And needs to learn that the UFC they dont play .They are for real.
Completely agree Jones. If the UFC really wanted to promote Lesnar they would have never given him Mir in his first ever fight. You almost knew a submission was going to happen. Mir is so technical for a heavyweight.
If you can go into the UFC in only your second MMA fight and almost beat (destroy) a former champion then you belong. Bottom line. Everyone else is just hating. Can’t wait to see who they match him up with next and watch his development.
Since Sylvia lost to big Nog i would love to see a Mir vs Sylvia rematch. Nog called you out Randy..where are ya?? That would be an awesome fight too..Former Pride Heavyweight champ now holding the interim UFC belt…Randy settling his dispute with the UFC to come back and take what is his… WOW
Looked to me like Sylvia lost that fight because he got to conservative. He was controlling the fight and should have known the longer he let Nog hang around the greater the chance that he was going to get caught. Hats off to Nog! The scars on his face alone show he is a warrior. Who’s next for him though? What do you think about Lesner vs. Gonzaga?
Where is Cro Cop? Is he fighting any time soon?
I was rooting for Mir, because I think he is a top notch fighter and because Lesnar was running his mouth too fast for his first fight in the UFC.
Lesnar has power and size, but as Mir showed last night, that doesn’t equate to a win. You could also go back to the Couture/Sylvia fight. The comparison between Alexander and Lesnar is valid, they are both brutally powerful guys with little or no ground game, and you get the same end result when fighting an extremely talented submissionist.
As for Lesnar’s past wrestling experience. Yes he was a collegiate champion, but this was in 2001. After doing all that nonsense in the WWE for so many years, I really doubted his ground game was at the same level it was when Lesnar was at his peak as a true wrestler.
If anyone saw the tape of his first fight it was pretty obvious what Lesnar’s gameplan was going into this fight. I do think Lesnar’s strength was underestimated by Mir. Playing good defense i.e., keeping your head tucked and covered so the only opening Lesnar had was the back of the head, doesn’t mean that you swing anyway. Create space and take the legal shots. Mir kept his cool, even through the second onslaught and came out with the win.
100% in agreement with what Jones and further tube says. Lesnar looked good, but picking Mir was more than just the fashionable pick—it was the sensible pick. Brute strength aside, Lesnar was going to have some match-up problems with the far more technical Mir. But, I think it gave the UFC and the general audience a good sign of what’s to come with Lesnar. Brock is going to have some more fights and when they decide to match him up against someone who will also like to bang with him, we’ll see just how complete Lesnar is.
If Nog calling out Randy is all it took to get Randy back in the Octagon, that would be awesome. However, I just don’t see it happening. The Heavyweight division is by no means the deepest, so it’s not long before we see Nog v. Mir and then Brock, with a couple more fights under his belt, fighting a match that has some contendership indications on the line. Personally, I’d love to see Giant Silva come over from EliteXC, but I don’t imagine he’ll be free any time soon to fight Nog.
Everyone keeps talking about Sylvia ko’ing nog does anyone remember he’s never been ko’d. Who are you to say Mir was about to tap before the stand up, and as far as that allowing Mir to regroup how long were they on their feet 30 sec. He took a beating his first fight he lost when he came back did’nt tap. By the way we don’t have ropes in the ufc. Anyone who knows mma knows that a true fighter is one who can whether the storm and go on to win. Some people are so stupid to think your name instead of talent says how much your worth, it’s people like you who are ruining this sport this is not fake wrestling you retard your worth should be determined by your skill this is not fake. Sorry I get agravated with idiots who are trying to turn mma into the wwe. I repeat this is a real sport not fake wwe.
just to let everyone know i saw the ice man the other day at a book signing and he said that he might fight again in june and that it might be jardin or shogun.i dont know about you guys but the shogun fight is the one i want to see
It’s already been announced, Liddell vs. Shogun at UFC 85 in London on June 14th I believe. Though I hope he gets another shot at Jardine eventually, as there’s some atonement to be had there I believe. Also, just because Lesnar was in the WWE 4 years ago doesn’t mean that by joining MMA he’s somehow turning it into the WWE… I don’t understand the logic in that.
I never meant to give the idea that I thought Lesnar was turning mma into the wwe, seeing that it was already happening before Lesnar. Because skill has nothing to do with pay, that almost like a barber getting paid for being a brain surgeon having never put in the years of school or even performing a surgery. A persons pay should never be determined as whether or not I like him, what if your pay was determined that way would not be to you would it. The wwe has nothing to do with skill since the matches are fake. I agree that mma fighters deserve to be paid well, the pay just should be so one sided especailly when the guys making the most are losing. As far as Lidell he’s proof that a fighter making more to loose sucks hence Jardine say what you will Jardine ko’d him sounds like boxing and Don King to me. It should be set up you win you make the big bucks you loose you make less then there is no one to blame but the fighter if he doesn’t make big money. Then the right guy gets paid. When does Jardine get his big shot should he not be ahead of Chuck in the standings, just wondering……
sorry left out a word would not be fair to you.
Tim D….
Yes, Jardine should have been ahead of Liddell, in line for a title shot after he beat him, and the big Silva vs Liddell fight shouldn’t have even happened in my opinion. Not yet. Liddell was to be rewarded that fight IF he beat Jardine. And now, we will likely see the winner of Shogun vs Liddell get a title shot at the winner of Griffin vs Rampage in the early fall. So what about Keith Jardine, the man who beat both Chuck Liddell and Forrest Griffin? Well, truth is, he’s just not as big a sell, so Dana will use him sparingly. Fair, no? But sadly, this sport has changed drastically in recent years. It’s all about the money, the draws, and the big name fighters. Not so much skill and talent.
Biggest proof of this is actually TUF. Serious, if you want to be a UFC fighter, just make your way on to the reality show. Win or lose, you will be rewarded with plenty of fights in the Octagon… on the TUF Finale, Fight Night Live, and if you win both of those, the next PPV card, maybe even the televised portion.
I expect the Brock Lesnar push will continue, and we won’t see or hear much of Frank Mir again… Why? That was some serious PPV buys, and with the 5$ increase in parts of the world, Dana is a very wealthy man… Brock is happy with his 250k for the loss and so the story goes. Half of us fans are disgusted, the other half don’t care.
This is the same reason Randy walked out on the UFC. It’s becoming a spectacle. But then again, with the rise in popularity of the sport, what did any of us expect?
Just my two cents.
I am not to suprised that Mir caught brock in a submission, but anyone who thinks that maz stopping the action didnt help Mir is crazeee. Brock was punching at will and Mir gave him his back and Brock inadvertly hit him in the back of the head. It was not intentional. And therfore maz should have just gave Brock a warning instead of stopping the action. Lets face it if you watch the ufc frequently that has happnened a lot in this game and I ahve never seen the ref stop the action before. Maybe, just maybe Maz didnt want to see a former pro wreslter win.
Great conversation Marcus J I enjoy an honest and intelligent view. I should also say that I’m sorry to the fighters just because I don’t like him doesn’t mean I should degrade them they deserve respect if they fight. A fan since 93 I’m just unhappy about the treatment of some fighters and the direction of the ufc.
Brian, if you watch closely there are two separate times where Brock delivers a total of 5 punches to the back of Mir’s head. The first 3 were let go, and Maz stopped it after the next series or 2. I am surprised a verbal warning wasn’t given as well, and also surprised he deducted a point without warning, but bottom line is Brock did hit Mir in the back of the head 5 separate times. It’s not allowed. When he got his back he should have sunk in a choke or mounted, spread him out, and taken his time with his punches. He was in too much of a hurry, and he broke the rules. Intentional or not, 5 shots to the back of the cranium in a no no. Rookie mistake. Maz did what he thought was right. It’s not easy being a UFC ref, there is one corner and one side of fans who are never happy with your decisions. I give him props for stopping it and standing them back up.
And to Tim D.. I couldn’t agree more with you more about not being happy with the direction the UFC has been going as of late. Things really seemed to start going downhill for me with the Royce Gracie vs Matt Hughes fight.. and things have snowballed from there.
Gracie vs. Hughes = Horrible. I’ve thought on the situation that you’ve brought to light many times Markus J… and I’m never able to come up with an entirely acceptable resolution, so I’m sure that Dana and TPTB have the same trouble. I ask the same questions when it comes to who is most deserving… the Jardine example is a glaring one, he beats Chuck and then more or less hits a glass ceiling? This isn’t fair at all… some would say, “Well, he caught Chuck at the right time.” But, who cares? He beat him. I can defend Liddell vs. Silva from the standpoint that both men had lost 2 straight, so it turned into a situation where their backs were against a wall. I wish there was a situation where the 8 best from a division could go into a tournament ala old school UFC in a PPV. Throw the “supposed” top 8 heavyweights out there and let them battle it out over the course of a PPV, thereby eliminating the, “Well, why isn’t this guy or that guy getting a shot?” type stuff. BUT, then you end up having guys get hurt, etc… which is also no good. We have different views on Lesnar obviously… I think that he will be very good in the near future, and find him to be a very interesting subplot to everything due simply to his endeavors over the past 10 years. Personally, I am more apt to be interested in a PPV that involves him due to wanting to see his progress, etc… (then again I also love watching Clay Guida matches.) So, the quandry with money begins there for Dana. If people are more interested in seeing Chuck, Brock, along with other high-profilers, thereby upping byrates it can only be expected that they would ask for and expect to make more money. It’s a trap, that pretty much every professional sport has been forced into.
In my opinion, if a ref is strict on enforcing rules, it should be the same for all fighters. Did anyone else catch the Tyson Griffin vs Gleison Tibau fight? That fight was officiated by none other than Steve Mazzagotti. In the third round he gave not only one, but two warnings to Tibau for blows to the back of the head. Not stopping the fighters or standing them up. I saw 1 to 2 blows that landed in the back of the head. Which happened since Mir was turning his head trying to change position. I think if Brock would have been warned he would have been more careful and probably would have been able to end the fight. He had Mir in a pretty bad spot.
In my opinion, the best fight of the night was Tim Boetsch destroying David Heath. The kicks, knees, and throw into the cage to solidify the the inevitable TKO, was awesome!!! If Dana gives him the opportunity he earned/deserves, it won’t be long before this guy will be straping a belt around his waist. Liddell, Jackson, and other’s in this weight class, need to take notice, Boetsch is for real, and should be back soon.
Markus J if Maz doesnt break the action just yells a verbal warning to brock, does Brock win the fight? It almost looked like to me when Mir rolled onto his stomach like he was ready to call it a night.
when i read these posts i am embarrassed and dumbfounded at the same time. it seems to me like a lot of you are reading into the matchup lesnar vs mir whatever it was you wanted to happen. to clear things up for you, mir won, he didnt win in any kind of dominating way, but he did weather the storm and win the matchup, to talk about what ifs like “what if the ref didn’t stand them up?” is ridiculous. on the flip side i cant believe you guys that are posting like brock embarrassed himself and should go back to wwe. he is a big rookie right now and he was matched up poorly to his style. you cant deny that he has potential should he decide to stick with it. which i hope he does.
final thought: it would seem to me that the heavy weight division is screaming for a standard bearer now that the amazing cotoure is out of the picture. is mir the guy? maybe, he was there before and certainly is the best submission artist in the weight division imo. is brock the guy? maybe in 5 years. if he stays with it. lets wait and see