Comments on: Frank Shamrock Chats It Up

By: DethStryque

DethStryque — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 19:38:27 +0000

Hey,I can admit when I’m wrong.Shockingly wrong.FJS v Cung Le? I had FJS narrowly winning Round 1 (close rounds go to the champ) FJS was pressing Cung and negating Cung Le’s hard high kicks with sharp counter rights until Cung Le broke his arm and followed up with vicious side kicks and that spectacular san shou sweep takedown.I had Cung clearly taking Round 2,and FJS winning Round 3 with his vicious punching up until Cung kicked FJS again in his broken right forearm or whatever it was.Cung Le then followed with a barrage of punches and kicks,and I give FJS crazy props for fighting one armed against Cung and withstanding Cung’s spirited attack.I also have to radically reevaluate Cung’s stock and elevate my opinion of his skills.I also have to give him madd props for bringing respect from some of the more “disdanful of traditional martial arts” MMA crowd for the lead leg heel hook kick,and the sidekick.While I’m on the subject,mad props for Anderson Silva for adroitly applying the crescent kick to both Rich Franklin AND Hendo,as well as appyling the side kick against world class opponents (Rich,Hendo) before Cung did it against FJS. I would dearly love to see a FJS Cung Le rematch,but not until late this year/middle 2009.FJS completely underestimated the power and versatility of the lead leg sidekick–a weapon I have used to spectacular success against my several MMA friends in sparring matches–when applied by a skilled practitioner who is also well-versed in MMA.I have long felt that the MT modified stance of most MMA standup guys is way too broad.Too open.I have long felt that their work against the cage when coming back to their feet is begging to be exploited by skillful judoka.Same with their clinch work.I throw these guys all the time.As MMA evolves,I wouldn’t be shocked in the least to see kenpo like hand strikes while in the clinch…I wreck guys all day with it at he kickboxing gym.

I hope that FJS retools his standup arsenal and particular his stance and defense before facng Cung Le again.I’d like to see him add Tokey Hill to his coaching staff,due to his extreme expertise in adapting taekwondo kicks to the cage and ring and the San Jose State wrestling team to his sparring partners (again) to amp his wrestling.FJS exposed Cung Le’s standup weakness…boxing,head movement and striking from the clinch.He just couldn’t capitolize when Cung broke his arm.On top of that,FJS was right that he could push Cung’s conditioning and drown Cung around the middle of the 4th or 5th round.He just needs to take away Cung’s kicking weaponry and overcome Cung’s tremendous wrestling.Doing something like what I suggested should give him the best chance at that.

By: Dethstryque

Dethstryque — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 08:43:16 +0000

garlicboy…are u mentioning Cung Le in regards to the rumored forthcoming fight with FJS? Just curious. If so? I will have to say that i unequivocally expect FJS to defeat Cung Le. i have the greatest respect for Cung’s conditioning and love his backstory regarding escaping Vietnam,but I have never been impressed with his striking. Yes,i said his striking. I have never seen him engage a potent striker,and his victories over other largely subpar strikers simply (even Arne Soldewell or whatever in the Shidokan Challenge–a tournament which deserves waay more respect than it gets,btw) emphasizes the serious dearth of quality strikers in MMA rather than world class striking ability on Cung’s part.There are very few polished all around strikers in MMA. Guys like Andrei Arlovsky,Anderson Silva,GSP…guys like them…form the upper echelon of MMA strikers,and their ability is very rare in the sport.I would say that Anderson is the class of the field,Andrei (when he’s on) is probably the class of MMA heavyweights,GSP and probably Brandon Vera are the future of MMA…and I would say that FJS’ overall striking is technically superior to Cung’s. Yes,I said technically superior,as in “technique-wise”,”execution”. Knowing that his opponents were inferior strikers,Cung Le would get sloppy in his technical execution. Hands low. Zero head movement. Charges with his hands low,punches and returns his hands to low positions,exposing his head and parts of his upper torso. His clinch is tight,but his bridging the gap to clinch is sloppy and will be exploited by anyone with footwork and sharp technique.A single cross could end Cung’s night at any time. I am sure that Cung Le is a skilled wrestler,and I respect him for that. But FJS tapped Olympic gold medalist Kevin Jackson in 14 seconds. He grapples with hendo and those guys. Add to this the fact that FJS is legitimately a world class subgrappler,and we have the ingredients for a dominant FJS performance. Cung Le has a puncher’s chance; that’s it. Frank spars with Maurice Smith and K-1 hopefuls.Frank’s striking skills are on par with GSP’s.Cung’s is below that,IMHO. i have plenty of respect for Cung Le’s warrior spirit…here’s a man ready to scrap with FJS in only his 4th or 5th MMA fight (like Tito Ortiz did).Cung got cojones.He’s also got a loss comin courtesy of FJS.

By: garlicboy

garlicboy — Wed, 02 Jan 2008 08:06:28 +0000

Although Cung Le has not fought an MMA match that has gone to the ground, the guy can take a guy down and has is a former state champ in wrestling. Had a free week at his gym. The wrestling coach, Sam Spengler a former collegiate wrestler at Idaho stated that coach Cung tosses him around. Spengler is also a current MMA fighter with only 1 loss. Cung Le will be able to handle the ground game. And that’s if his opponent can take him down.

Case in point Mike Massenzio, high school state wrestling champ of NJ, but I’ve personally seen him work European and collegiate wrestlers. If you don’t know Mike Massenzio, don’t worry you will.

By: Dethstryque

Dethstryque — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 05:53:41 +0000

And UFCPreview.com? I have to respectfully disagree in Kimbo’s case…and that’s not hatin,I’m Black and from the hoods od Sotheast San Diego and East Side Long Beach. I really think that FJS was utterly pole axe Kimbo. Kimbo hasnowhere near the skill or the polish to hope to hang with FJS. I almost never bet,butI would take that bet. I never saw Lesnar fight so i can’t say much about my position on FJS v Brock.

By: Dethstryque

Dethstryque — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 04:57:04 +0000

Oh,yeah…whassup Joe Mac and vampslayr! Thanx for taking the time to read my long ass posts and responding to me. Yo Joe…I agree that FJS won’t KO Anderson Silva in 7 minutes,I was just paraphrasing a quote of FJS’ in which he claims that he’d sleep Silva n 7 minutes.i think FJS’ chances of EVER KO’ing Anderson are very slim at best. I think that the best chance we have of seeing someone KO Anderson in 7 minutes would be if Anderson stepped in with a A-level K-1 heavyweight–not a K-1 light heavy (like Dewey Cooper) or a middleweight–in a K-1 competition. I think that FJS is positive that politics will forever keep him and Silva apart,but i also think FJS is confident that he will beat Silva and vice versa. It’s very clear that Silva has fought and crushed superior competition at this point in their careers than FJS has and Anderson would and should be the prohibitive betting favorite in their mythical clash. But if any middleweight can take Anderson,it would be FJS. If Anderson gets passed Hendo–and I think he will–then an entirely different style of fighter is what it would take to defeat Anderson…and that style would be similar to FJS’ style.If not FJS,it would be GSP moving up to middleweight and being totally focused.Maybe maybe a more seasoned and mature Denis kang at peak powers. Not Matt Lindland.If Anderson gets by hendo,Matt Lindland has nothing for him,and dear God Silva would execute Matt hughes. But Anderson,FJS and GSP share similar styles,with Anderson being the world wrecking striker of the three,GSP making it clear that he’s the superior wrestler (ask Kos),and Frank being both the best strategist AND the best subgrappler of the three.IMHO. Lastly,I want to shout out the other FJS fan–my manz Vinny,whassup dawg?–who gave my previous post props. I stand by that post to the end. I really think that FJS’ contributions are not only changing the way business is done in MMA by insisting that he fighters get treated with respect and dignity as well as being properly compensated,I think he is right 100% in that the MMA prizefighters need to behave according to the standards of Bushido,forever preventing our beloved martial arts from being both corrupted and corrupting as boxing oftentimes is.FJS isn’t merely a prizefighter. MMA is the martial arts equivalent of prize fighting,and too man TUF n00bs and even worse MMA vets are only focused on their fighting careers as a prizefighter and perhaps a businessman (if you make enough money to develope side business ventures) but NOT AS MARTIAL ARTISTS. The main and primary benefit of martial arts result in the complete developement of the human being throughout a lifetime,not merely the all-too-brief career of a prizefighter. FJS gets this,he understands that you can and should develope oneself in every area as long as you live. this means that combatively you will still be a force to reckon with,a role model,a teacher,friend and more. FJS seems to understand this,and i don’t really see it in others (although I see parallels in both GSP and Silva). What do the rest of u think?

By: Dethstryque

Dethstryque — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 04:00:06 +0000

In regards to a fight with Anderson Silva? I think that FJS is being FJS. He by no means is afraid of Anderson,but FJS is nowhere near stupid enough to engage in extended standing trades or the MT plum (clinch) with Anderson. Frank is very intelligently keeping the pot boiling so to speak regarding public interest in a FJS-Silva fight.Anderson would find his stiffest standup challenge in Frank since he came to the USA because FJS has superior footwork,standup defense,and more technically crisp striking fused wiith grappling than anyone Anderson has faced thus far. Hendo would probably be the hardest puncher (but nowhere near the best striker skill-wise) Anderson will face in the cage. The biggest issue would be whether FJS could do enough damage in the standup to facilitate a takedown and do enough damage on the ground to take a decision or stop Anderson. That’s a tall,tall order that even a Frankophile such as myself would admit seems to be a serious reach if not flat out too much even for FJS…but if there’s any middleweight out there who can do it,that man would be FJS at the peak of his powers. i honestly think that it’s unrealistic to talk Silva…not only because we will never see it due to politics,but primarily because there exists other actually doable fights by which we fans can more objectively gauge where FJS stands visavis his current standing amongst the current middleweight elite.For instance there’s a much better chance for Rich Franklin to join either the WEC (which is where i think he will end up) and feast on the B-class comp there and not only take but keep the middleweight strap there or jump to ELITE XC (which is the BEST move for him if he doesn’t want to be written off as a paper champ) and throw down with FJS or Robbie Lawler.What a fight that would be for FJS.I think that FJS has the speed and technique to defeat Rich,as (IMHO) Rich’s strength is literally his physical strength and his striking.I really like Ace,but I note a number of technical lapses in Rich’s offense AND defense. If Rich and FJS fought? Itmd be a close affair,but I actually see FJS being able to stand consistently with Rich,and I see FJS winning this one. I wouldnmt be shocked to see Frank TKo or tap Rich. Seriously.okami has nowhere near Frank’s expertise,and he nearly got Rich. Okami is not close to the striker that FJS is,but he stood with Rich all fight long. Yes,Okami’s strength and size were significant factors in the fight and FJS has neither attribute in extreme amounts,but Frank IS one of the strongest guys at his weight and he is CLEARLY several notches above Okami skill-wise.In the end,though,i see Rich staying with Dana and victimizing the WEC guys.Matt Lindland? Not only is this a doable thing but it’s a truly incredible fight that would really push FJS and let us know where he stands amongst the elite. Matt Lindland is Top 8 if not Top 5 middleweight material. I could see Matt getting a fight in ELITE XC,then (if he wins) fighting Robbie for the ELITE XC strap,and the winner gets FJS. I really think Matt would be the odds on favorite in a fight against FJS,and for good reason. You see Matt’s fights v Rampage and Fedor? Formidable guy,he.But I’m gonna go for the upset and pick FJS in this one. FJS is the superior striker,possesses superior speed and accuracy,and his ground defense is superb…still amongst the world’s best,hands down. Anybody who could have submission legend like Renzo fully mounted on him and still not only limit Renzo to merely TWO sub attempts THE WHOLE FIGHT but also make those attempts look pathetic? Yeah,I’m thinking he can withstand Lindland’s GnP. We can have a lively discussion around FJS v Lawler. (FJS should win that). Recall that Marquardt and Matt Lindland would be coups for ELITE XC and I expect them to be recruited at some point in the near future.Unless Dana torpedoes the negotiations,I think tito stays with the UFC,and Tito can’t make 185 anyway. Nate Quarry would be a solid middle of the upper road guy for FJS (FJS wins this),and the results of that fight would let us know where FJS stands amongst the elite 10 middleweights…but fights with Lindland,Lawler and Marquardt would be by far the best indicators,because these guys are elite and the fights are doable. I call FJS to win all three (the scariest being the Lindland fight). What do any/all of you think?

By: Vinny

Vinny — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 14:31:48 +0000

Great read Dethstryque, I too am a big FS fan. I agree with all you said. He is on top of the food chain. If he goes into a fight to do business IMO I think there isn’t a fighter on this planet he cann’t beat. I think a fight between brothers isnt cool, don’t want to see ot, Frank will destroy him unless he feels bad and takes it easy on him. I found it sad you didn’t see Randy’s fight against Sylvia on their top fights in 2007, typical **** of the UFC, the same way you cann’t buy a tape of Frank Shamrock owning the UFC in his day as champ. This kind of bull**** will eventually come back and bite them in the ass. Frank Shammrock is a very smart man, still young enough to do some serious damage and make some serious big fights to entertain the MMA fan. I’m just happy to be around while this is happening.
GOOD LUCK FRANK SHAMROCK

By: UFCPreview.com

UFCPreview.com — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 03:55:41 +0000

Lesnar and Kimbo would retire Frank Shamrock….they aren’t Phil Baroni

By: Vampslayr

Vampslayr — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 01:55:19 +0000

Dethstryque, I believe there was a time where Frank could achieve all you claim as fact, however I believe there are a number of fighters, many of which you mention that have surpassed him. Good read tho, and keep drinking the cool-aid. I don’t agree, but I respect.

By: Joe Mac BJJ

Joe Mac BJJ — Thu, 27 Dec 2007 03:29:14 +0000

Dethstryeque, I to do not believe Frank would knock Silva out in 7 min. I think A Silva is as close to an unbeatable fighter there is. I know there is no such thing but he is unbelieveable. I think Frank would strike with him for a bit and eventually shoot. idk if he would beat him, but what a great fight it would be, to bad we’ll never see it.
btw, u do any martial arts?