Lyoto Machida, “Shogun” Rua Agree to Immediate Rematch
Posted by Kris Karkoski on Oct 25, 2009 at 11:18 am ET149 Comments
UFC light heavyweight champ Lyoto Machida and Mauricio “Shogun” Rua have agreed to an immediate rematch following Machida’s controversial decision win over Rua on Saturday in the main event of UFC 104.
“I thought “Shogun” won the fight. I think there will be a rematch.” said UFC President Dana White at the post-fight press conference. “I talked to both of them and they both agreed to a rematch.”
The Machida-Rua rematch will happen “as fast as we can,” according to White, with an official date to be determined in the coming weeks as both fighters determine when they’ll be able to return to the Octagon.
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I’m a huge patriots fan and late in 07′during there undefeted season they ran into the baltimore ravens(who they beat)but they seemed to give a bluprint on how to beet them.Although shogun lost i think he showed with a sound game plan and a little patiance,machida can be beat,and maybe he’s not as invinsible as we all thought.Watching the fight again i still think shogun won.I’m also glad machida did win and i think a rematch is the best thing.(to finish the anologly patriots lost in the superbowl)for you non football fans.
O,
Who are you? Do you think you are Anthony Michael Hall from The Dead Zone? Suddenly your psychic? You dont know if Machida will win. I mean, he got very lucky last night, because Shogun did really win that fight. I didnt realize you knew everything man. Thats fascinating.
The point was that the seemingly invinsable can very quickly become very beatable.
Im a huuuge Machida fan…huge. The fight last night was one of my favourite fights to date. But the whole card was tainted. Johnson being 6 pounds over and KO’ing Yoshida(who i felt bad for), Rothwell stoppage shouldve happened a minute earlier or later but the timing was horrendous. The main event was such an awesome fight to watch , i was completely shocked by how shogun had the answer for Machida, i was shocked by Machidas performance(i believe he was injured from the first round), and if ANYONE out there thinks that the decision wasnt swayed due to VEGAS, then they are dillusional. Those judges are told in advance, if this fight goes to decision and is close, the decision goes to the guy with the BETTER odds OBVIOUSLY. When vegas decides the odds are soemthing like 6-1 underdog, you better believe they swayed that decision realising the f**k up…..”somebody” got paid accordingly, while many many many “somebodies” lost a huge pay day. Coincidence? Give me a break. This has left such a bad taste in my mouth, i think im going to boycot 105(even though its free). I need to re-evaluate the sport im committing so much of my time to, i’m not sure if this seriously affects my outlook on the sport as a whole. I’m also so dissapointed in Machidas performance(taking nothing away from Rua), it was just a shock to my system. Not sure what to think. But i have a terrible taste in my mouth from last night.
if i was looking @ this fight with zero emotion, or bias(even though i love both these guys, i had committed to Machida)…this was such an awesome f**kn match-up. On the edge of my seat the whole fight. Top notch Muai Thai vs top notch karate … beautiful … but i still have this sick feeling in my stomach over it… they tainted it
I guess I’m dilusional. The books for sports betting have been refined to the point that there is very little benefit in trying to sway a decision.
You also can’t say that the guy with the best odds needs to win. It depends on how well the spread worked to balance the bets. The goal of the spread is to make sure there is even betting payouts on both sides. If the spread does indeed result in even betting (which it most often does), it doesnt really matter who wins or loses because the bookies get paid either way.
It was a bad decision no doubt but I bet several people watched the results 1/2 expecting to hear Machida’s name because the champ made it to a decision. Like the saying goes, “You have to beat the cham to be the champ.”
WOOOW…im gonna sound r*tarded for this considering my above posts. Ive been calling foul play since Saturday night, and let me tell you this. I can openly admit to being 100% wrong on this. I actually am shocked at my perseptiion on the fight the 1st time, and the 180 degree turn i took watching it a 2nd and 3rd time. Its become cliche last 2 days, but i watched it with no sound. I am now in sock and disbelief as to why i was under the impression Rua won….Machida clearly won rounds 1,2,3 after watching again. I dont even know why i THOUGHT Rua won those. WEIRD. Rua SQUUEKED out round 4, and won round 5. Unbelievable, ive been talkin so much sh*t about this “horrible” decision, but now i completely feel bad for Machida, he won that f***in fight. Im not even gonna try to further explain, because i dont wanna sound like im nut huggin or anything, but im so shocked at how my perseption changed completely on 2nd glance. Machida deffinetly won that fight, Rua missed the majority of his spinning leg kicks first 3 rounds, and had NOTHING else to offer Machida, Machida countered EVERYTHING and almost went for the kill like 3-4 tims in the first 3 rounds, and even couple times in round 4 and 5. WTF happened here with all of us??? Machida won that fight. What a weird turn of events for myself. Im surprised.
I haven’t watched it without sound but during the first fight I was arguing with Joe Rogan. I even told my wife his announcing was lopsided during the fight. Ill have to try watching it again because at this point, I do think Rua won the fight. I dont think it was a landslide, but Im surprised it didnt end up a split decision.
Just to set the record straight – Jim Johnson (former Eagles Defensive coordinator)developed the strategy to beat the Patriots the week before the Ravens had their shot. Then Spagnuolo, JJ’s former Eagles Asst. (for 8 years) used the strategy in the final game of the 2007 season and then refined it to win the Super Bowl as D coach for the Giants.
shogun proved machida can be beaten, i agree,
but shoguns strategy was fitted to his skill set.
who else could execute like him?
in this division there are others who can beat machida but they be smarter to fing ther own GD approach
Great Great Point.!!
Of course Machida can be beat, no human alive is unstoppable!!
But styles make fights and shogun’s style is able to contend with lyoto’s!!
Great fight though, classic style match up. Usually when the Karate vs Muay Thai clash Muay Thai usually wins from what I’ve seen.
i’ve said this before, i’ll say it again… brandon vera can beat machida.
Thats actually been one of those matchups ive always secretly hoped would happen…..I know it would be lob sided (especially after last night) but to see shogun’s muay thai up against Vera’s would be entertaining as hell..( if vera showed up at his best)..and basically watch Rua put a beating on him….but Vera would not beat Machida. I think we are getting a little carried away here. Machida was NEVER in any serious danger, no real strikes to end the fight by shogun, but machida DID actually shoot to kill at times. Machida is still the champion regardless, and i understand shogun won the fight, due to putting a beating on machidas body+legs, but let’s not get carried away. Machida couldv’e just as easily finished the fight at any moment.And it WAS a very close fight with the slight edge going to Rua. I honestly think when this all settles, it will prove to be beneficial to Machidas overall game because he has never experienced something like that. GSP had Hughes and Serra, Anderson has Ryo Chonan, Fedor has his pointless loss,Machida has Shogun, and Machida needed this imo in order to complete his overall game..face adversity. I do feel that if Machida is the real deal, he will show up in the rematch a different fighter. And he would still destroy anyone else in the division..both these guys would. I was so impressed with how Shogun handled it, then felt bad when saw him crying, even feel bad for Machida, he didnt wanna win it this way. And the great fight is getting over-looked. But the moral of the stroy here is, don’t get carried away, Brandon Vera would not beat Machida.
Very well said, Teck. I too believe this is a very important element in the growth of Machida.
Honestly, I don’t see why people get so emotional (the fans, I mean) about a controversial decision. Unless of course they had money on Shogun. I think it amps up the hype for the re-match and just adds alittle more drama to the whole scene. Besides, who wants to see a champion never face adversity? Not me.
Aesome News!
Well, looks like the organization solved the 108 problem and found themselves a headliner.
This is completely unfair to shogun. Now his gameplan is exposed, and Machida will capitilize on it. Complete bull$****.
true exept the gameplan stayed the same for 5 rounds and machida couldn’t stop it. if hogun adds wrestling and cardio on top he’ll dominate even more as long as he stays respectful of machidas laser strikes
LOL..ok. I’m going to make a fortune betting with Machida, against all the people at the pub down the street!! Also, betting my friends, who I thought had a clue, will be profitable and satisfying as well!! Extremely close fight. I’m disgusted with all the fools who became emotionally carried away, for any number of reasons, while watching live. Neither fighter was ever in any real trouble. If Hua, really punished Machida’s legs for 25 minutes should he not have been able to capitalize on an increasingly immobile Machida? He was clearly unable to put Machida, in any danger! Btw fans, Muay Thai, does include strikes to the HEAD! Hua’s corner told him he was winning so he NEVER(not once) went for the kill! Listening to people say they are outraged is a travesty! Is that really how you fight to win the TITLE? Have a 2nd look at Machida’s very deep and damaging knee strikes everytime our beloved Hua, rushes in for a (unsuccessful)takedown. Don’t be lazy and stay on the bandwagon. Watch again and THINK!!!!!! then judge…my esteemed fellow fans-BradGonz…
I agree its unfair however machida realized the gameplan all to painfully in the 1st round – watch himin the corner!. he could do nothing to stop it – shogun is too good. if shogun gets wrestling his cardio and take downs will make him practically unbeatable. he’s already the favorite in the rematch
good on dana. i kow he technically isnt holding the decision, but still…
while i complain that there should be a ladder determining cards – not the whims of managment, i must say dana knows mma and always speaks his mind, and i’ll be gratful if these kings fight their rematch without any obligatory fights in between.
not saying i’m not gonna watch carwin vs lesnar… or maybe next good gsp match up… just that the shogun dragon match up is as good as it gets
so glad, shogun won that fight i gave him 4 rounds yeah they wa close but he edge them imo, and the stupidest comment ive read is u gota beat the champ to be the champ a points win is still a win u dont have to knock some1 out to prove u can beat some1, shougun was robbed end of story!
here you go O
FightMetric Numbers From UFC 104 Main Event
shogun should now train mma wrestling w. GSP with which he’d get cario and takedowns galore. machida must find a way to improve cause shoguns got his number
The down side to the rematch is that shogun is probally gonna feel pressured into being more aggresive(because of such a close decision)and i think he’s gonna be more exposed to a counter in the rematch IMO.Machida is definatly more likely to finish him in the rematch.Unfortunatly the pressure is on rua.
d pressure is on both. but rua is more motivated now, while machida must drink an extra cup of pe epe e
You don’t think rua has more pressure on him to be more aggressive,being that machida won a very close fight?I think rua is gonna feel he has to win definativly,and can’t leave it up to the judges.I’m not saying that machida is gonna be satisfied leaving it to the judges.But i would bet if you asked rua he would say he feels like he has to finsh lyoto.Or win very convincingly.IMO rua has more pressure to perform in there rematch.
actually johnboy shogun won on damage done not just by points
the judges had a pecial camera – nipples up only
Haha! Welcome Russiandoeboi!
Not many people can rush forward with shogun’s speed and avoid taking massive damage and quickly land kicks in combos like that. His speed combined with his personal knowledge of Machidas fighting style makes him a perfect, albeit unique, fit for beating Machida.
anyone saw machida vs bj penn?
bj’s style was perfect for beating machida, just he was too small for lyota.
imo bj’s style was better than shogun’s
Yeah,that was a good fight even though it looked like a heavyweight fighting a middleweight,could have gone either way and I actually gave BJ the decision.And when asked about ever getting marked up in a fight Machida says only from his brother and BJ.
Combos? Really? c’mon now….
I completely agree with you Figs,it is a shame!!Now Machida Knows the game plan, and I think he will capitalize on it in the rematch.
What if shogun does what gsp did post serra 1…
wrestling training?
not assuming that shogun could become GSP good at mma wrestling -but still with the massive leg kick advantage already there,
the extra cardio and threat at takedowns which would open up his psycho good GnP (see those leaping punches accross the guard vs overeem as just one example. i dunno about any golden secret being removed – or if it’ll stop shogun from dominating the rematch
to all the peeps sayin that it’s unfair because machida knows shogun’s gameplan, surely it’s the same for both, shogun knows machida’s gameplan! i enjoyed the fight but i think machida was holding back for some reason, next time he’ll be more aggressive & knock him out in 3
This man knows of what he speaks….
well…i think Shogun executed incredibly well, and made it too close. however, i don’t believe passing over a title should be that tight. if Shogun wanted that belt, he needed to win it convincingly, and he did not. what i found a little disappointing, was Joe Rogan’s commentary during the fight. normally he’s bang on, and i enjoy his knowledge and entertainment. but i believe he in his heart wanted Shogun to win, wanted a changing of the guard, and it was perpetuated during the entire fight. Shogun would come in, execute a good kick (although quite a few were actually glancing/missing)and Rogan would rave of how hard/devastating they were. meanwhile Machida was delivering just as effective strikes from my perpective. he never mentioned those…my opinion of course, but i think Rogan was far from neutral in his commentary.
agreed, machida did have an answer for alot of those leg and body kicks with a counter. but all in all, youre correct about to become the champion you have to kick the champs a$$. i had a feeling that the decision would go to machida, although shogun surprised the he!! out of us and realistically handed machida his first loss. did you even see the look of surprise on machidas face with that bloody lip?
“no one makes me bleed my own blood! no one!”
Machida definatley won round one and two rewatch and count strikes that were landed. Machida came out with four nic knees In a clinch and had good punches and kicks. All shogun did was get a couple of good kicks in. Round 3 was close but machida took it at the end with a nice flurry hitting shogun alot while he only got one punch in. Read the post fight interview with shogun. Even he said he lost the first two rounds. Everyone was just suprised to see machida hurt. Doesn’t mean he lost or was losing. Rematch will prove all. The line doesn’t lie.
i was sad to see machida lose but shogun won fair and square imo. as the fight went on i was actually kinda happy to see shogun winning because of what lies ahead… anderson silva vs shogun would be a dream match imo as well as silva holding the 205 and 185 simultaneous would prob make him change his mind of ending his career in the near future… ok card overall… 106 is gonna be legit tho. plus alot of free fight coming up in the future!
T3CHN3TNIUM,
Glad to hear you say that dude. You have my respect!
Shogun’s gameplan was bad as hell and was completely unexpected and it worked like a fu**ing charm! It is sad that he didn’t win and now that there’s a rematch, machida can better prepare and study shogun’s awesome strategy.
An immediate rematch means nothing to me dude. It means that machida can go study, prepare for something he wasn’t prepared for and couldn’t handle in their first fight. That imo is gay and sucks. The fight has the potential to go hella differently because of this reason. Not taking anything away from shogun but that’s just what’s going to happen and if shogun loses the fact that he already won will mean nothing and that too will just suck ass and just be hella sad.
Dana white needs to SERIOUSLY do something about the judges because errors like this more than hurt the sport on so many leves. If i’m a fighter and fighting for the ufc, i’m thinking “**** dude i better finish this guy because evem though ive kicked his ass for the last 14 minutes, the stupid ass judges will give the other guy the decision”.
Shogun is the champ and the world knows it!
I’m replying to O:
All the fighters and Dana White at the press conference agreed that Shogun won that fight. I watched it, and thought Shogun won too. I agree with you that neither fighter dominated the other. But, come on, man… Shogun won.
I’d like to rewatch the fight just to see how anyone could’ve gave that fight to Machida. I’d like to be fair to those who think Machida won. But, as of now, and after watching the fight once really closely… I’d have to give it to Shogun. No question about it.
O,
You really sound like a biased fan dude.
I could careless what the stats say. If you watched that fight, you should be able to see that Shogun won.
He did control the octagon more than Machida did.
Examples:
Shogun was being more aggressive. He would move back to avoid kicks an such, but every fighter does that. Almost every other time he hit Machida he would follow it up with a punch or another kick. In the later rounds. Shogun was taking the center of the octagon. He was going for takedowns. etc. Shogun was more aggressive, he DID MORE DAMAGE, he showed better octagon control. He won that fight.
Yeah, I know, Shogun lost, a loss is a loss, so get over it.
I understand that, but what Im saying is that you are absolutely insane if you think that Machida won that fight convincingly.
Shogun won dude.
Dana White, Joe Daddy, and Rumble all said they think Shogun won the fight.
O,
I have looked over your comments for awhile now and all I have to say is well you might be confused.. You keep saying that Machida out struck Shogun yet supply no proof … Also by the O I’m finding your comments to be essentially trolling but I will save that story for another day
FightMetric Numbers for the main event of UFC 104
So lets say Shogun is the champ in your mind…either way, they would be rematching asap, just cuz thats how the ufc does it. Rashad JUST lost his belt, and they are already saying if he beats Thiago Silva, hes in line for a shot again. So pretend that Shogun has the belt, and they will be rematching. You can’t discredit what happens in the rematch…..because the rematch would happen regardless of the decision.
** If i’m a fighter and fighting for the ufc, i’m thinking “**** dude i better finish this guy because evem though ive kicked his ass for the last 14 minutes, the stupid ass judges will give the other guy the decision”. **
That’s what Dana has been saying after nearly every decision for 2 years now. Never, ever let it go to the judges.
I think you fellas, just like Shogun. ‘Cause he’s more handsome. And you want to kick ass and be like him!!! Haahaaa-BradGonz
You sound scared of Machida’s, strategic abilities(or that of his trainers/handlers/family). If Hua, was awarded the decision, Machida, would be entitled, to an immediate re-match. So wait for it. I’m pretty confident with Machida in the re-match. He let the attention, go to his head. He didn’t train properly. He’ll be out and about next fight, friends. Lost the last 2 rounds…I’d look surprised too. Also, the “domination” comments are pretty insane fellas…
Anderson’s Muay Thai, is clearly much stronger than Hua’s. So much more dynamic. It is an art which emphasizes 8 striking weapons and Anderson uses them all to devastating effect. Muay Thai imo, is much stronger than Karate, but I feel Machida, is a more advanced practitioner than Hua. Not the case with Anderson, who is 2nd to none at his advanced level. Silva, is the only man currently in MMA (around the same weight) that would defeat Machida, in a close match. Amirite?? C’mon now-BradGonz
72% say robbery.
Yeah,it’s funny how 72% can be wrong
It is…very funny …and strange no?
the whole “octagon control” debacle is part of the problem… you see…
shogun looked like he had more OC than machida because of how he was stalking machida… BUT that is machidas style…
so on one side it looks like shogun has OC and on the other it is machida that has the OC… so its basically 50/50, there styles pretty much nullified each other…
on striking shogun threw more strikes, but had a lower hit % than machida, and machida had a wider arrange of strikes and a better hit %
on damage done id have to give shogun the edge…but the damage that was done to machida was not enough to finish him off, it merely hindered his performance…
but when you look at it all over all i can see how the judges saw it…(just random guessing, no FACTS HERE!!!!)
on OC it was 50/50
on striking it was 60/40 machida/rua
on damage done it was 55/45 rua/machida
so when you add all that BS up it gives machida the slight win… and even if it was closer, the champ always gets the “win”
same thing when you go to a casino, house always wins a draw
now keep in mind guys that i wanted machida to win, i like both fighters, but i called the fight a win for shogun… i was just as shocked as everyone else…
i scored the fight rounds 1 2 4 5 rua, and machida in round 3…
I understand thats Machida’s style, he is a counter striker, just like Chuck. But just because thats his fight style, doesnt mean the judges change the criteria of octagon control.
They never had to deal with that before because usually Machida wins convincingly or by TKO or submission. I think on striking it was at least 50/50. Shoguns striking was far more effective seeing how he slowed Machida down via kicks.
I think Machida lost, no doubt about it.
But you are indeed right, the champ always gets the win, just like when you gamble, house always wins a draw.
Nice comparison dude.
Shogun Clearly Won That Fight. Everyone Knows It The Fans Know It Dana Knows It And Even Machida Knew It. When He Heard His Name Get Called He Was Surprised I Honestly Believe That The Judges Must Have Been Payed Or Either They Just Dont Have A Clue. Dana Must Get An Immediate Rematch Its All Shogun Deserves So The Sooner This Match Gets Set Up The Soon The True Champion Takes That Tittle Where It Belongs And Thats To Shogun.
The octagon control thing is interesting…
but it gets vague,
JJ man made good points about it, like how Machida’s style is be elusive and wait to strike rather than just try to appear to have control….
but in this case he was getting damaged slowly but clearly by the kicks and was unable to launch a serious attack.
re-watch the last minute of the 3rd – Machida’s best moment.
Was Rogan wrong when he said that the hardest shot of that flurry was Shogun’s Right hand
that was Octogon Control with a capital O
Yo you need to chill out bro. People are saying you need to chill because in a bunch of your comments your getting all hyped up and saying the same stuff over and over. You also sound quite biased in my opinion. Also, If you cant handle a nice debate then why are you on here? Stop telling people to shut their mouths. Everyone understands your opinion on the fight now. Trust me.
I did indeed watch the fight with my eyes, and my ears. And from what the commentators were saying, and from what I WAS SEEING, Shogun won. When Dana White, the commentators, Joe Daddy, and Rumble think Shogun won the fight….well I think thats very convincing. I agree with them because theyre right, he got robbed. And you have no idea who will win the rematch. Did you predict Gonzaga to KO cro cop? What about Serra’s win over GSP? Hmm?
Your comments so far have been nonsense, your outnumbered, Machida lost that fight, and Shogun landed more strikes, he controlled the octagon, he was a slight bit more aggressive, and he at least went for takedowns.
Ive gone after your comments all day, and Im done.
Enough has been said.
And if Machida was trying to win the fight, he should have been more aggressive. Once it came to that fifth round, it was simple to see that Machida was not trying to win that fight.
Ya this fight will likely co-headline the new years event with Anderson silva- Vitoria belfort. If that’s the case, that new years card is gonna be something special.
we’ll drink a cup o kindness dear to auld lang syne
Machida has the huge advantage in the rematch. He saw first hand how Shogun could counter his fight style and now can implement changes to make sure he is better prepared in the next fight. Advantage now in Machida’s favor. Shogun won that fight,
what do you think of FightMetric’s numbers O
by those numbers, fr, its a blowout… but whos tallying them? im not questioning the integrity of the site but just wondering who puts the numbers in and what is considered a hit or miss?
First off, those aren’t MY numbers, they are fightmetrics, and believe me I’ve read every single one of your comments actually I’ve read everyone’s comments..
“fight winning strikes” or “all-around fight winning strikes”, what does that exactly mean? could it all just be ones perspective>
I guess its easy to dismiss others opinions by always thinking you are the only one with a worthy thought process
O you didn’t answer anything I asked….
I never said anything about a SD, good stuff
Personal attacks against anyone isn’t a bright idea, so instead of answering what you mean by “fight winning strikes” or “all-around fight winning strikes”, you attack me.. I get it you think Machida won, you agree with the judges, so instead of having an intellegent debate about the situation you will name call and attack posters here @ the FrenZy, lets see how that ends up working out for you…
Now I’m degrading you……. you are a wonderful story teller O
machida was doing a good job of hiding is reduced mobility.
what number is that o?
i’d say the nembers don’t matter shogun had the upper hand and did way more damage
well just based upon what i saw, i believe that machida did land more shots then what hes been given credit for. rogan was ranting everytime rua landed a leg/body kick, but said nothing about the counters that machida was throwing everytime. so that leads me to believe that joe was baised for some reason or another. i think even the garbo goldberg made a comment about machidas counters, but that being said i still think that rua won the fight. machida only attempted to end the fight once, in the 3rd i believe, but still the more effective striking went towards rua in the end of it. machidas face and body were beat up, something that weve never seen, and at the end of the fight dana himself was lined up behind rua, and went over and told him that he won the fight too. yes, machida did land more strikes then what credit has given him, but not enough to win 4 of 5 rounds.
Again, to O:
4/5 rounds to Machida? Are you kidding me? Even IF Machida won that fight (which he didn’t), he only won 3/5 rounds at best.
You keep gathering evidence to corroborate your own view. A stronger way to convince your opponents (i.e., the majority of us who saw the same fight and think that Shogun won) is to address their claims and show why their claims are false.
So, please explain: why is it that Shogun landed so many more strikes than Machida, but still lost? Why is it that Machida himself seemed to embarrassed when he heard Bruce Buffer announce that he was the winner? Why is it that Dana White, Joe Rogan, and a whole bunch of other people who are much more competent at judging the outcome of a fight than you or me all agree that Shogun won that fight? Are they all wrong?
Is it possible that the judges made a mistake? Or, has that never happened?
i like ufc better overall,
and pride had some lousy decisions too,
but i felt at least their judges in the end rewarded whoever dominated more than as per a geeky accounting tabulation
sorry dude but i couldnt make sense of this. i like the ufc too…
O
fine you didn’t insult me at all and we understand you side with the Judges that is fine, if that is how you saw that fight so be it, thanks answering my question
o,
put the gun down and step away from the keyboard,
above:
just saying that pride refs looked for the dominant fighter, not as much for who landed more.
the scoring system still reeks of boxing even though its in an octagon and is completely different.
O,
So Machida was going for the win every time he struck? Thats an interesting OPINION. Please do explain…..go in depth….because when i watch the fight, it seems pretty damn well clear to me that Machida was not trying to “go for the win when he struck”. Even if he was, it does not matter…he did not finish the fight. He was simply outstruck. Maybe not by a great margin, but he was outstruck nonetheless. Whether it was kicks, punches, or knees. This is MMA, mixed martial arts. Kicks cause as much damage if not more than punches do.
Shogun was going for the round??? Really? Wow dude, like, I cant even comprehend what your saying. Im not trying to bash or sound like Im personally attacking you but what you’re saying is ridiculous. Where is your proof that Shogun was “going for the round” and Machida was “going for the win” ?
Please enlighten me….please…
Jenkins didn’t call anyone names
As FR just said, I didnt call you any names. I didnt realize “dude” could have such a negative effect on an individual. Crazy stuff man.
Regardless of what Shoguns corner said, you were not inside the octagon during the fight. You also can not read minds, therefore, you have no idea what Shogun’s strikes were intended to do. One thing that’s for sure is that Shogun’s strikes were more effective through the duration of the bout.
With that being said, im still flabbergasted and puzzled by your comment because you still don’t provide a reasonable logic.
Kicks cause as much if not more damage than punches? Uhhh..wouldn’t Machida, be dead, if that were the case? It’s a different kind of damage…c’mon now…
O,
You have also contradicted your opinion more than once, you have completely ignored some of your previous statements when others have called you out on them, more than a few of your so called “facts” have been incorrect, which FR702 previously pointed out (striking statistics) and it doesn’t matter whether or not you were intentionally speaking to someone, this is a public thread, anyone can reply to any comment.
I know that I’m not attack you so if this comment is directed at me I believe that you might be a bit confused, hell I believe alot of the posters asking you to explain in depth are confused by your statements, not the way that you have “seen” the fight but the way you are stating you opinion…..
Pretty much everyone on this site is entitled to their own opinions and they can express them freely. People can also respond freely and have a civilized argument.
I am in no way picking on you, I just believe some of the things you are saying are incorrect and have a somewhat ridiculous logic behind them.
Anyone who regularly checks this site and reads all the comments knows that I love a good debate and I thrive off of proving people wrong.
I think your facts are false, therefore I am calling you out.
Over, and over, and over, and over again
I think that was pointed at me FR but I could be incorrect, and my comment I just posted was intended for O.
Just making sure you know that man haha. I dont want you to think I am coming after you because I am not at allllll.
Like I have previously stated, I was in no way picking on you and I am not “talking smack”.
Yes the hype did throw some people off, but not me at all my friend.
I am competely calm and chill, you just take things too personally and get far too defensive. Its a public website, I am free to argue.
All I was doing was trying to get a point across to you, as were many other people, but you are oblivious to that.
Done.
That was a low blow calling me a moron, I did not at any point use any name calling. I only said some of the things you were saying had a ridiculous logic behind them without solid proof. Big difference.
And if I were not listening, then I would not be arguing, and I would not be trying to get a point across, I have read every comment on this thread. So…I have been listening.
Done.
O, and you are being “open minded” to the thought that Rua might have won that fight?
Fightmetric scores the fight 49-47 Rua.
which by no means make it definate that Rua won the fight, I’ve used FightMetric to show that for this fight that Rua clearly outstruck Machida, now look at the mess that has transpired
perhaps all judges scorecards should be released to the public and made as a requirement for all decisions made? that would solve alot of problems, not only the one at hand, but in arguments that actually matter?
O, I have removed your most recent comment, again no personal attacks take this as your warning, this is a place for debate and open conversation about MMA I could have edited your comment more, yet instead decided to put a line through it… This is your WARNING for personal attacks and those type of comments will no longer be tolerated..
MMAFrenzy.com reserves the right to moderate all comments
I’m not ganging up on anyone, I’m open for debate
Hmmmmm for some reason I doubt that is going to happen but I enjoyed the joke
I have a certain opinion and you have one that differs, that is what some people consider a debate
I’m a Moderator of MMAFrenZy.com
O,
For the record, you actually have no right to leave a comment on this website, this website is privately owned and therefore reserves the right to moderate and/or delete any comment we see fit. I’m not going to get involved in the argument of who won the fight, but I will say this, fr is taking it easy on you, I wouldn’t have let you keep going this long, but I’ll respect the decision of my fellow moderator and let things go as they are, but again, you have been warned that personal attacks are not allowed, lets stick to the facts.
O,
You haven’t been called any names, besides the one comment I edited. Here tried to come at me. I’ve also noticed you posting the same stuff over and over without backing your point. Some guys have pointed out rather coarsely that they think you are wrong on who you think won the fight, and that they think your logic is flawed, but they have not called you any names or attacked you as a person.
Tell me to take a hike again, and you will be banned. You should really pay attention to who exactly you talk trash to, if you would do more on this site than just argue on this one thread you would see that I’m not only a moderator, but a writer for the site.
GET HIM fr702!!!
i wanted machida to win, but he shouldnt have. IMO Rua didnt even deserve a shot at machida, especially after 2 lackluster wins, but he proved to everyone (except for you) that he deserved to be in top contention. youre obviously seeing something that we dont, or youre not seeing what we all see. but no one can deny what you see, right?
Shogun won the fight. the only case you can make for machida is that in order to get the belt you actually have to beat the champ. This fight seems to be the exact opposite on how te judges scored the Griffin-Rampage fight. Machida didnt do enough to keep his belt. Shogun did enough to out point machida but i think machida’s style kind of dulled down shouguns attack. It made shoguns attack seem maybe less effective then it really was. And O you are extremly biased i have read all of your posts and i respect tht u have ur own decision. but i think it is disrepspectful that people say its okay tht you think machida won but you make it a point to put down their opinion. machida knows he lost. the last round of tht fight he accepted tht he lost and was in survival mode. tht round right there showed he knew he lost.
O its not that you are argueing your opinion… its the manner in which you argue… your posts come across as heated and trying to proove a point…
if you were to debate your veiw without so much vigor you might be taken mroe seriously…
take my earlier post for example… i tried to see how the judges saw the fight… even though i saw shogun winning more of the fight than machida did…
i also wanted machida to win, but was as surprised as he was when he won…
when you compare this machida fight vs every other fight hes had you can see that he was not as elusive as he usually is… this is due to shoguns skill, he took alot of powerful strikes… and while he was not totally dominated i felt that machida did lose the fight…
there is one other thing id like to mention about the fight and that is how much gas both fighters had at the end… i think at the pace they were fighting they could have gone on for another 5 rounds… and i think that the pace needs to be more intense, it was a championship fight both fighters should be near puking at the end of 5rounds
I think that Machida’s change in training area played a role in how well Shogun did against him, but I am not intending to take any thing away from what Shogun accomplished by making Machida look human.
I just edited him as soon as I saw it. Don’t pick a fight with me, I won’t play games with you.
No one is trying to attack Machida, and no one is trying to attack you, they just disagree with the judges decision. That doesn’t make Machida any less of a great fighter, or mean they respect him any less.
In my eyes, you are not “trying to be a good person by supporting a great fighter that’s getting knocked down by everyone else.” You are picking fights with other people on the site, and making arguments that you don’t support with facts.
O just reading you comments makes me
think your a *****..rua won deal with it man judges screwed up once again..and in favour majority wins more pepople think rua won handle it even tho machida won the belt everyone knows he didnt even he himself..and for the rematch shogun going to put him away imo i would love to see thatNo personal attacks. -Justin
I see what happend there George, and so I just cleared the comment, no worries~ FR702
O, you seem to be mixing up two things.
(1) Who officially won the fight. (2) Who actually (objectively) won the fight.
Nobody is disputing (1) — Machida was declared the winner based on the judges scorecards. We are debating (2).
You’re in the minority, it seems (even though you have the judges scorecards to back you up). You claim that Machida won.
Most other people who saw the fight believe that Shogun won. The judges didn’t see it this way (obviously). And that’s the issue: we think the judges were mistaken.
People who think that Shogun actually won aren’t “liars”. Just as people who think that Machida actually won aren’t “telling the truth”. We’re talking about who ACTUALLY won the fight — here the truth of the matter is, as this whole thread shows, debatable.
o why is everyone wrong but you.. it doesnt make sense. we have been telling you to elaborate on your “claims” but u just put a wall up and say we attack you.
I would like to put an end to this “the judges got paid” or “the judges knew the Vegas lines” business. Number one that is a very serious accusation, and one that you cannot substantiate. Number two, I sat next to the judges last night at the Carolina Crown, those guys would much rather have a KO or Submission so they don’t have to decide who wins. They hate having to determine the winner. One of them said to me, “I hate having to tell two guys who just fought their guts out who I thought won the fight, it sucks.” I also find it funny that little old North Carolina and it’s judges had no questionable decisions last night, and California had a debacle.
Close fight for sure but I gave Machida rounds 1,2,3 and Rua 4,5.Listening to Rogan he did sound a little biased cause almost every time Shogun landed a kick he ate a counter yet Joe didn’t mention that(Goldberg did).I think Shogun’ corner should have been more concerned about it being such a close fight instead of telling him he was ahead.And I don’t like the way Dana reacted.If he,like many others,disagreed with the decision-that’s fine.That’s what rematches are for,and why they say don’t let it go to the judges.
I agree that Rogan made it pretty clear who he was pulling for in his commentary, I event said as much to one of the guys I was watching it with, and he agreed. But it’s not the first time that a commentator has let his personal favoritism get in the way of accurately calling a sporting event, nor will it be the last.
Yeah,that’s true.And as lame as it may be I’m sure that there’s lots of people who allow the commentary to sway their opinion.
I’m a shogun hater and machida is my favourite fighter, but even I think shogun won that fight.
O, don’t be insulted your comments are continually edited. I said somethig out of line about 12 months ago and had every comment I made following that deleted until just recently. Don’t think too much into it. This site is ruled with an iron fist. If there wasn’t 4-5 new mma stories posted here on a daily basis, I’d have stopped coming, but truth be told, this is the best and most up to date mma site on the net.
I’m excited for this rematch. I wonder what mahida will do to try to counter those kicks… Hopefully he does something special. Thank god for Cain velasquez. He truly saved this latest PPV for me… Best ass whoopin I’ve ever watched.
O its hard for us to respect you when you come across as arogant and rude… when you are essentially shouting with the CAPS LOCK ON!!!, it also doesnt make yourself look good in our eyes when you hide behind things like “IM TRYING TO SUPPORT A MMA FIGHTER THAT DESERVES SUPPORT AND RESPECT. MACHIDA UFC L.H.WEIGHT CHAMPION!!!” its not that we arent supporting him or hating on him, it wasnt his call… if it was machida’s call i bet he would have given up the belt, but it doesnt work that way…
you keep saying that machida truly beat him, and how shogun completly lost etc etc etc…
yet the rest of us are saying that shogun should have won… all be it a close fight but he should have won… however that is not the case machida retained his title
the fight was that close, its that simple… you saw the same fight hte judges saw, and we saw a different fight… i saw a fight where machida lost, i thought for sure shogun had won, and like everyone else who saw the same fight i did was surprised he didnt…
machida won, but it was not a clear cut victory… at least not in my eyes…
now O why dont you try to explain in a rational calm post why you feel that machida won outright and how shogun completely lost… oh and please try not to make one long run on sentence… its hard on the eyes and hard to follow…
You were not called multiple names, I have looked back through the comments, and have talked to fr702 and neither of us see anywhere you were called names.
I get off for a few hours, come back, and this is still going on.
Wow.
Idk about recently, but earlier, no one was calling you any names. People were arguing against your point, you got defensive and started talking nonsense. I called your logic ridiculous, and you got all crazy, and started calling me a moron and such. Then you start firing at fr702, a moderator. Thats just not smart at all.
Its hard as h3lla hard to avoid your posts because you do indeed send a bad vibe, YOU were the one calling names, you have multiple gramatical and spelling errors in about every other post. etc.
Let it go dude.
there ya go, justin beat me to it
what he said
They call you down because you keep going and going and going like the damn energizer bunny or something! All you keep talking about is “well this person called me this!” “Machida won get over it Machida rules!” “Shogun doesnt deserve a rematch!” “Watch the fight with your eyes not ears!” “name calling this name calling that!”
*yawn*
You have said the same things over and over, without solid facts supporting them. If your going to provoke an argument, then at least have facts supporting your statements and have a good logic behind what you are saying.
Let it go O!
No offense man but your just shooting yourself in the foot right now.
I did not call you crazy, if you can read properly and understand adjectives then you would realize that I did not mean it that way.
I said you “got all crazy”. Meaning, you got fired up, defensive, intense, etc.
Really? Wow hahaah
Im going to be the better man here and walk away.
He didn’t call you crazy, I understood it to mean exactly what he said he meant. If you can’t understand that, then I think we’re done here.
Just for the record guys, my avatar is not me, its a picture of Mayhem shaving his face with a sword hahaha.
For the record, O is done, probably a few hours too late, but whatever.
O since you like to be mr. e thugg and call people out, why dont you come out to BC and join me in the ring for a few rounds or at my jj dojo for a rounds or 2 on the mats…
i tried to be nice to you, but the moment you talked big, i lost all respect for you, and even more so now i dislike you for how you made us canadians look bad…
id be more than glad to shut you up with my leather gloves…
but all that can be avoided if you just take a chill pill, and learn to understand that when someone says “you’re acting crazy” or your “logic is rediculous”, that they are not name calling and if anything you should take it as critisim not cynicisim
Actually you all say(not all but ive heard it more than once) that to win the title you have to beat the sh$% out of the champ thats holding it? then rampage should never have lost to griffin because that was just as close as this fight and as they show on http://www.fightmetric.com the fight was close but in Rua’s favor it was bad judging doesnt matter if they were payed off or not..its bad judging..even dana white admits it
Actually,I just watched the post fight presser and Dana is kind of making contradictory statements.First he says that he thinks Shogun won and then he says that rounds 2 and 3 went to Machida,4 and 5 went to Rua,and the first round was a toss up.Which is it?It was definitely a close fight and hard to judge but I agree with the 2 judges that gave Machida rounds 1,2,and 3.
and just to add what i was saying i truly thing its not the contender that has to outright prove he is better than the champion the champion has to show each and every fight why he has the honor of walking around with the gold around his waist and to be called a champion of whatever division he is representing thats a true champion not one that slides by
Um, Jesus.
WTF?
How does Machida getting an unusual decision win from the judges constitute grounds for some new poster to repeatedly smart-mouth our moderators?
I mean seriously, this is the frenZy, and we just don’t roll like that here.
As for an immediate rematch, I think its well-warranted, and I’m sure that Dana wil sign it as soon as both guys are good to go.
Yes, the fight was tough to score, and yes, no judge likes to be put on the spot in any fight, let alone a super high profile UFC PPV 205 title fight.
They might have made a mistake, but accusing honest men of malfeasance or somehow blaming it on “Vegas” says more about what sort of MMA fan you are than what sort of people scored the fight.
But regardless of the outcome, the LAST thing ANY poster should be doing here is disrespecting the mods.
Some of those posts are the most disrespectful I’ve ever seen, and that includes those that were posted against me awhile back.
I respect the mods letting this go on as long as it has, but with equal respect I would have banned said offender maybe 20 posts ago. Justin H and fr702 do an amazing job here, and NO ONE has the right or grounds to disrespect them.
If anyone is that upset about last night’s fight, they can slide on over to someplace like iheartmachida.com and post their noise there…
AMEN!!! As a long time reader and often poster, please ban this dude.
Its not that I don’t want to hear discussion and argument but this thread has been seriously hijacked and turned into a circus.
He can’t go beyond his origional statement and has posted the same thing like 50 times.
Wow! Thanks for the entertaining read guys! What a way to start a Monday! My favorite part was when Justin said “For the record, O is done, probably a few hours too late, but whatever.”
At this point I assumed he had been booted…only to have lower-case “o” return! We’ve just found our new Marvel hero! The O that wouldn’t die! Maybe next time he’ll come back as a zero.
By the way, o, I’ve been trying to convince these guys that Serra beat Hughes for months…a bunch of these guys are fighters, or people who actually train in martial arts of one form or another. (not samurai beard shaving) Sometimes we’re just wrong…and you can’t have wrong without an “o”. Love the passion, though.
LMFAO to GaRule- That made my day..But in all seriousness watching the fight in person Machida seemed to win 3-2 but then watching at home it seemed 2-2-1..Whichever way you look at it, it was a good fight & kinda reminded me of the old Pride fights. I was embarrassed to be around all the so-called “fans” who were booing in the audience who had no clue at all of what they were experiencing. This is not tough-man it’s MMA. Like someone else said earlier Machida got the win but it was not a clear-cut win. Very good stategic fight IMO.
Wow, chaos in the threads. That was entertaining. I personaly don’t agree with the decision but I am happy that Dana is getting them back in the cage ASAP. Good decision on the UFC’s part.
I origionally argued that Rua didn’t deserve a title shot. I still think he didn’t “earn” it but he did prove that he can beat Machida. I usually trust the UFC matchmaking and I guess they didnt let me down for this fight. I also thought Machida was going to kill him. I couldn’t get the Coleman fight out of my head, even though I knew the situation in that fight.
Im split 50/50 between each fight should be scored correctly and that a fighter must beat the champ to be the champ. I’m waffling on that issue and see good on both sides.
Overall, I thought the fight could have been more interesting. I would have liked to see fire under somebody but they both stuck to their game plans. I can’t fault them for that but with those two guys, I expected fireworks and just got a 5 round smoulder.
The leg kicks were absolutly brutal but out of all of MMA, they are the least interesting to watch.
I really hope that the rematch is not 5 more rounds of the same thing. I hope Rua does try to prove he can be the champ. As a fan, I would like to see maybe 2 or 3 rounds of leg kicks followed by either some take downs and gnp or head kicks and more “effective” striking.
Finally… I would like to comment on the absolute world class comments made by the fighters in the ring after the fight. Machida basically said “The judges scored the fight and decided I won” and Rua said pretty much the same thing and gave respect to the other camp. Rua just earned major cred in my book for not being a baby about what was a bad decision in my opinion.
sounds preposterous, but i still believe Rogan convinced a lot of people that Shogun won…
I agree. Rogan made the fight sound lopsided. I do think Rua won, but I dont think it was a landslide. The announcers did not comment on any of the strikes that landed from Machida and made a big deal out of some of the kicks that were checked by Rua.
Great point.
Some of the more hotheaded posters went with sh!t like, “the fight was fixed!” or “the judges were crooked!”, but more mention needs to be made about how the announce team, Rogan in particular, does not even remotely try to be objective on the mic.
And he DEFINITELY worked overtime to sell the crowd on the idea that Rua beat the living sh!t out of Machida.
Last night and several beers ago, I was one of those who thought that Machida caught an a$$-kicking. Today on the treadmill I watched the fight again, with the sound off, and its WAY obvious that the fight was much closer than Rogan’s commentary indicated.
IMO if Rogan is going to call a fight like that, he might as well work the event in a ChuteBox t-shirt or something like that.
Also, if Dana is cool with Rogan working like that, thats one thing we can deal with.
But if Rogan is sort of putting his own twist on fights, then as fans we need to be aware of his semi-biased commentary and adjust our POVs accordingly…
On DigYourOwnHole’s comment about Rogan influencing fan decision: just because he thought that Shogun won, doesn’t mean that the people watching only believed Shogun won because Rogan said so. Give people some more credit: people watching also saw the fight themselves, and probably came to their own conclusion independently of Joe Rogan.
Anyway, I just rewatched the fight. It was definitely close, and hard to score.
Round 1: was too close to call, but for the sake of argument I’ll give it to Machida.
Round 2: Shogun was the aggressor for sure, and landed more strikes.
Round 3: Machida won based on his flurry of punches near the end of the round.
Round 4: Shogun won based on, again, aggression and more strikes landed.
Round 5: Also very close, but I’d have to go with Shogun (aggression and strikes).
So, the fight could’ve gone either way, really. I wonder what would’ve happened if before round 5 each corner their fighter that he was losinglosing. Maybe one of them would’ve finished the fight instead of letting it go to the judges. Anyway, I can’t wait for the rematch!
seemore said that, Ijust agreed
My main point was, Rogan did not comment about anything Machida did.
I am probably in the minority in that I like Joe Rogan. I just think he might have gotten a little carried away. I think, “Holy smokes Batman, Rua is putting a hurting on Machida” set in and Rogan couldn’t stop thinking about that.
I think going into it, Rogan though like I did that Rua was good but Machida was going to school him. When that didnt happen and Machida’s leg turned to hamburger, it was a shock.
Yeah, I see what you and jcohl (above) are saying. It’s a good question whether Rogan and Goldberg should be more objective about the fights they cast.
The below is a copied/quoted post from 5th round.com:
I’ve watched the fight.. Three times over. I’ve read all the stats and feel obliged to list them:
Shogun landed 82 strikes out of 149.
Lyoto landed 42 strikes out of 116.
Shogun had 55% accuracy
Lyoto had 36% accuracy
Shogun landed 17 shots to the head (12 power shots).
Lyoto landed 14 shots to the head (8 power shots).
Lyoto landed 24 shots to the body
Shogun landed 16 shots to the body
Shogun landed 49 leg kicks.
Lyoto landed 4 leg kicks.
Shogun landed 48 strikes from distance.
Lyoto landed 26 strikes from distance.
Shogun landed 34 strikes from the clinch.
Lyoto landed 16 strikes from the clinch.
Strikes landed per round;
Round 1
Total strikes:
Shogun: 19
Machida: 11
Round 2:
Shogun: 21
Machida: 7
Round 3:
Shogun: 19
Machida: 15
Round 4:
Shogun:10
Machida: 3
Round 5:
Shogun: 13
Machida: 6
Shogun Rua scored a 49-47, without doubt, overall. Something isn’t right in the UFC…
Comment by with a j — October 26, 2009 @ 8:10 am
Just a reminder here.
Assuming everything you posted from 5thround is accurate and correct, and I’m not saying it isn’t, the UFC isn’t responsible for the decision, the SAC-appointed judges are.
So if something is indeed “wrong”, it isn’t the UFC’s deal, it’s the SAC’s…
O had way to many skittles this morning. and if machida knew he won why would he agree to an imediate rematch. machida is a very respectful person and knew he lost and gave shogun a second chance. O we all know machida won so stop saying that. we are saying is that shogun should of been the winner. Learn what ur saying stop insulting people and get a new keyboard
HAHA…trash talking poor O’s opinion AND his keyboard! Hilarious. “Oh, yeah…and your keyboard sucks to!” HAHA
Counting strikes only is not good enough octagon control exists for a reason and every round octagon control was Shogun’s.
I’m not sure about that. I would like clarification of what octagon control really means to the judges. I think there is more to it than just being closest to the center of the ring. I think both guys used the ring they way they wanted to and thus “controlled the ring”.
Man when you look at some of those numbers if they are accurate you have to wonder what “beating the champ convincingly” means because those are pretty convincing.
Beating the champ convincingly to me means more than solid leg kicks for 5 rounds. He needed to be dominant at more than just 1 aspect of the fight.
Things that I consider “convincingly”:
Being on top of the dude most of the fight.
Punches that lead to a daze, multiple times or effective combos for a solid 4/5 rounds
Takedown after takedown.
octagon control… when you are the aggressor you are dominating the octagon.. being the aggressor the majority of the time scores with judges, or so I always thought which makes sense.. it is hard tho because there is no real solid information for scoring really out there.
it was close no doubt, anyone can see that. and i still believe that you have to beat the champ outright. and i don’t think rua did, stats or no stats. and i DO believe that Rogan’s knowledge and experience with MMA give the commentary a nice edge. but i believe that when people listen to him and the play by play, they at the very least consider what he says to have some validity. i usually do. and by the second round i was asking myself if he had a hard-on for Rua. nothing was mentioned of landing counter strikes by Machida, only ‘devastating’ leg kicks by Rua. and i guarantee PPVers heard that, and developed their ’scores’ accordingly…you can’t help it sometimes.