Reports: Brock Lesnar vs. Shane Carwin Headlines UFC 106, Cain Velasquez to Fight Winner
UFC heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar will defend his title against Shane Carwin in the main event of UFC 106 on November 21 in Las Vegas, according to MMA Madness and Fighters Only.
Carwin had been scheduled to fight fellow heavyweight contender Cain Velasquez at UFC 104 on October 24 in Las Angeles, but that bout has apparently been scrapped in favor of Lesnar-Carwin, with Velasquez then set to fight the winner, Fighters Only reports.
It is not yet known whether Velasquez, who is reportedly uninjured, will remain on the UFC 104 card against a different opponent, or whether he’ll simply wait until early next year for his title shot.
Shane Carwin addressed the rumors earlier today on his official website:
Lots of talk going around right now. It seems to stem from a twitter post out of MN. I can’t confirm or deny anything I can just tell you guys that I am training harder then ever and your support and loyalty will carry me through any fight they send my way. With you guys on my side I am ready for whatever happens.
Lesnar (4-1) suffered a first-round submission loss to Frank Mir in his UFC debut in February 2008, but received a title shot against then-champion Randy Couture following a unanimous decision drubbing of Heath Herring last August. After winning the heavyweight title with a (t) ko of Couture, Lesnar unified the heavyweight titles by avenging his previous loss and defeating interim title-holder Frank Mir by second-round TKO in July at UFC 100.
Carwin (11-0) is 3-0 in the UFC since making his Octagon debut in mid-2008, earning first-round knockouts of Christian Wellisch, Neil Wain, and, most-recently in March, Gabriel Gonzaga. “The Engineer” has never gone past the first round in winning all of his 11 professional fights, with his longest fight going just 2:11 and his 3 UFC bouts a combined 3:24.
Velasquez (6-0), a two-time All-American wrestler at Arizona State, followed up UFC knockouts of Brad Morris, Jake O’Brien, and Denis Stojnic with a unanimous decision over Cheick Kongo at UFC 99 in June.
Lesnar-Carwin joins Tito Ortiz vs. Mark Coleman and Jon Fitch vs. Ricardo Almeida on the fight card for the pay-per-view event.
For the latest UFC 106 rumors check out the MMAFrenzy.com UFC rumors section.
Pictured: Brock Lesnar
Tags: Brock Lesnar, Cain Velasquez, shane carwin
Loading ...
Giggety giggety giggety, LETS GET IT ON!!!!!!!!!
Kinda screws Cain and Randy though….
Carwin by KO round 2.
Why dose everyone think that if Randy oldman win he should get a title fight. Everyone else has to climb there way back up the ladder. The truth is that he has a record of 15-9 soon to be 15-10. The division is to stacked for handy to get title fights handed to him.
nice protect cains record for a lil while longer and dont put either one at risk for a loss witout the title being on the line. well played joe silva well played indeed
Wow, i honestly don’t think Carwin deserves a shot that quick,neither does Velasquez, Velasquez vs Carwin made more sense and that winner would have made sense for a title shot, but really how does beating one big name each earn them a shot? Lately the UFC has been granting guys shots at titles too soon and undeserving, this can hurt them in the future.
If this fight does happen of course it’s what most people wanted to see. People that hate Brock Lesnar want Shane Carwin to knock him out and all the behind the scenes trash talk hyped up a “beef” that problably helped this fight happen.
This sucks to be honest, i wanted to see Velasquez vs Carwin, that made way more sense and would have truly determined the real #1 Contender for the Heavyweight title.
by the sound of that statement it sounds like Carwin is kissing a little a$$ ” can just tell you guys that I am training harder then ever and your support and loyalty will carry me through any fight they send my way. With you guys on my side I am ready for whatever happens.” I think he’s just riding the new found hatred towards Brock from UFC 100 and is j=manipulating that to gain more support which is clever and smart on his part, but we’ll see what happens if they do fight because if anyone can put Brock to sleep with one punch it’s Carwin, but if he allows himself to be taken down that we can see an encore of what happened to Mir.
Greatly dissapointed, it should have been Carwin-Velsaquez.
“This sucks to be honest, i wanted to see Velasquez vs Carwin, that made way more sense and would have truly determined the real #1 Contender for the Heavyweight title”
I completely agree, I was pumped for Carwin vs. Cain, thought it would have been an awesome fight even though I had Carwin via KO in the first round. He definitely used his little Twitter rant about Lesnar’s actions at UFC 100 to catapult him to a title shot, well played Carwin…touche.
“Wow, i honestly don’t think Carwin deserves a shot that quick,neither does Velasquez”, I guess Lesnar deserved his shot after just 3 mma fights then?
I didn’t agree with Lesnar getting a title shot just after 3 fights either, but it is what it is. Just a decision made purely from a business perspective.
timcat,
dude i never said that Lenar deserved a shot that quick which i why i said this on my post above: “Lately the UFC has been granting guys shots at titles too soon and undeserving, this can hurt them in the future.”
Carwin nor Lesnar deserved a shot that quick,
Brock just defended his belt last month, Carwin vs Velasquez made the most sense and everyone knows that Carwin-Velasquez was clearly going to show who is the next guy to face Brock. The UFC thought that they would bring in Fedor and Fedor would get a shot at Brock right away, but that didn’t happen so now they have nobody to face Brock so their putting in Carwin which can be justified, but still a win over Gonzaga is huge being that Gonzaga is a top contender, but it’s still doesn’t mean you should get a shot right away.
dbiz, you hate the talk about having to win a specific amount of fights to get a title shot, i can see your point on that, but if just anyone got title shots only for the sake of the title being defended than that wwould take all credibility away from the title itself. Sometimes it’s better to wait to have a better build up and it’s important that the right and deserving fighters get title shots because as the sport grows, you can’t just have a guy come off an “impressive win” and get a title shot it makes the sport look not as professional. There has to be a way to establish rankings that can clearly determine #1 contenders because if guys keep getting title shots without working their way to title shots we are going to have more guys like Thales Leites getting shots undeserving while watching guys like Demian Maia just sit on the sidelines when guys like Maia have actually cleaned out most of the division while guys like Carwin have not.
How about a guy who is 11-0, has never had a fight make it to the 3:00 mark, and just beat a top contender?
That’s got #1 contender written all over it.
11-0 yes, but who has Carwin beat in the UFC besides Gonzaga who got tko’d by Fabricio fu*king Werdum, come Fabricio Werdum?????
That argument is a crock of horses#it, and here’s why.
Q1: Who has Carwin fought, besides Gonzaga?
A1: According to you, nobody.
Q2: Who has Velasquez fought, besides a one dimensional Kongo?
A2: According to you, nobody.
Q3: Since the answer to both is nobody, what does having them fight each other prove except, by your logic, that one doesn’t deserve the shot and the other REALLY doesn’t deserve it?
A3: A whole lot of “Let’s wait 12 months for a title contender…assuming there’s no injuries.”
Guess what folks? If we did it where someone had to beat a lot of big names, we’d have Lesnar fighting as often as Cung Le. The only argument you can put forward is so circular it means NOTHING! Not a single thing! A has fought nobody but X. B has fought nobody but Y. Neither deserves a shot right now, so let’s have A fight B and take one fighter completely out of a title shot hunt. It’s ridiculous.
Line them up. Carwin has more wins, more impressive wins, and a better top win. He’s #1. Velasquez is #2. Now we get fights.
the reason why Carwin vs Velasquez makes more sense is because both guys just came off impressive wins over top contenders, so them facing off is clearly what makes the most sense being that they are both 2 and 3 or maybe both are tied at the number 2 spot so yes whoever would have won this fight would be justified as the number 1 contender for the title, but that’s not gonna happen due to simply what jcohl wrote down below.
By your logic you want the champion to defend his belt all the time, so lets’ say they scrap Kampmann-Swick and just give Swick a shot for the sake of the WW title not being put on hold, after GSP destroys him who is he gonna face??? Is he going to face a guy who is still developing just for the sake of defending the title 3 or 4 times a year? That makes no sense, but hey you get what you want anyway because it’s never truly about the sport but about the money and business which is why Brock is the camp and Anderson Silva is the champ at 185 after one fight with Leben.
Yeah. Champs should be defending their belts 2-3 times a year. That you would settle for less for some mythical tournament that proves nothing in the end is a sign that you are will to accept Cung Le and his type in the sport.
If you have a belt, you defend it. You don’t sit around for 8 months while some keyboard fanboi tries to work out th timing of matches for the “perfect” match up. In the time it takes you to get two contenders, I could do 3 or 4 quality title fights.
For me it’s a no-brainer. I want to see the best fight.
So who DOES deserve a shot RIGHT NOW? I hate letting belts sit undefended for 8 or 9 months because no one “deserves” a shot. If you have two guys close, pick one and do it. If he loses, you have another person waiting. Get the belts defended 2-3 times a year.
Seriously, who else will you give a shot in the next couple months? Randy and Nog are tied up. Mir just lost it. Kongo? Who else is there that “deserves” it?
I’m sick of this “______ is ___ fight(s) away from deserving a title shot” whining. If you don’t have a single person who deserves it at any given time, you need to get rid of the titles because it’s a crock. There is ALWAYS a #1 because there is always someone coming off a win.
To follow up on myself, it wasn’t long ago that noise was being made about Gonzaga being a big deal in the HW division again, and Carwin handed it to him. That’s as solid a win as anyone is coming off of in HW, and certainly more solid than the win that got Rua a title shot at LHW.
Exactly because rua doesnt deserve a title shot, but everyone at 205 is busy. Rampage should have gotten it but he wanted to fight rashad instead. So same thing with Carwin not “deserving” it. Why would you want to wait months after nog v couture or months after carwin v cain to finally have brock fight again. I agree its not deserving but he was just at the right place at the right time.
yeah and brock deserved a title fight when he was 2-1.
Given what he’s done since, I’d say he did. Or were you being facetious?
marvelknight said carwin doesnt deserve a title fight wich is crazy, but what do you expect from marvelknight. carwin will beat brock and i cant wait till this fight. carwin’s punching power is awesome. what ever he hits he destroys.
I will tell you why Carwin deserves a title shot–becausde he is the best HW in the UFC. Sometimes people have to be fast tracked to the title. How many UFC fights did Anderson Silva have before he took the title and quickly became the best fighter in the world (yes it is a different argument but he is the best). When someone like that comes around you let them fight the best. Carwin-Velasquez would have been a pointless fight. Velasquez woould have no chance. He is a wrestler with no finishing power. Carwin is a bigger better wrestler and should be fighting Lesnar, who he should beat(I mean, because he is a better fighter).
From Dana and Joe Siva’s perspective leaping these guys up to the title fight prematurely hasn’t been bad for business yet, especially in HW division you could see matchups just being thrown together based on fan reaction and business. Sucks for fans that want a legit set order to things and give every fighter a fair chance.
I think were seeing the beginning of a pattern here, especially if Brock retains the title and if the heavyweight division remains shallow as it has. Imagine for instance if Lesnar defends against Carwin and Cain, but in the meantime the UFC scores Bobby Lashley to their roster. I think we’d see him get a walkthrough opponent then insta title shot. Maybe with the addition of this new TUF class about to come in if enough talent is displayed it could slow down this no name win to the title trend… I’m thinkin though thats about the only thing that could slow the tide b/c there is a lack of big names for HW and Dana’s just gotta put on big name cards I guess.
The truth is the second the ref waves off Lesnar and declares him the winner by TKO over Carwin, if not sooner, Dana White will be texting Bobby Lashley and inviting him out to his office for a sit-down…
I didnt care to see Cain v Carwin. Carwin would have won by KO. He only beat Kongo cuz Kongo’s wrestling was weak and it was short notice. Let’s not forget that on the feet, Kongo rocked i more than one round. Cain would have not been able to take Carwin down so easliy, and with those bricks Carwin is swingin, h would have knocked him out fo sho.
“Lesnar unified the heavyweight titles by avenging his previous loss and defeating interim title-holder Frank Mir by first-round TKO in July at UFC 100.”
It was a 2nd round TKO. C’mon check ur sources.
ZP580, I fixed it, things happen…. NO?
Gracias
It was a 2nd round TKO. C’mon check ur sources
Tool move, bro
Seriously edit your post. Lesnar tko’d Couture in Round 2, not ko, and he tko’d Mir in round 2, not round 1.
Hey Frankie settle down, k people make mistakes you do realize that… How bout you just chill out, its going to be OK
Frankie should relax. Like the t-shirt.
Frankie should go to Hollywood and get it over with.
Seriously edit your post. Lesnar tko’d Couture in Round 2, not ko, and he tko’d Mir in round 2, not round 1.
Tool #2
Whether or not it’s deserving, Carwin could possibly be the only threat to Lesnar right now. The 2 giant athletes of the UFC. All it takes is one short punch from Carwin and Lesnar goes to sleep. I don’t believe Lesnar can hit as hard as Carwin. Heath Herring would have been asleep after one punch from Carwin.
Great point Dirty. Although I agree and feel that neither Brock,Carwin or velasquez are or have been true #1 contenders, carwin is imho the only real threat to brock @ the moment. I honestly hate that this is the way the UFC operates and gives just any guy a title shot. I want to see a real champion crowned not just someone who’s good for business. Sure these guys are talented but that doesn’t make you deserving.
But someone once told me to just sit back and enjoy the awesome fights and that’s exactly what i’m going to do. Brock vs Carwin is going to be an epic battle of KING KONG vs GODZILLA and i think both brock and carwin have got their work cut out for them.
I also agree with mk4 and think carwin was kissing the fans ass. But whatever i can’t wait for this match!
Oh yeah and you know velasquez will end up with the winner of couture vs nog!
“but that bout has apparently been scrapped in favor of Lesnar-Carwin, with Velasquez then set to fight the winner,”
So then who do you feel should be the #1 contender if not carwin. He is as deserving aas anyone else…
sorry, i replied to a wrong post
First of all, I really like Carwin and Valasquez, but man this make sme question if the heavyweight division is as stacked as Dana says it is. But good for Carwin and Valasquez, great fighters.
How can people say that any fighter does’nt deserve a title shot because they ve had so little fights, if your good enough to win the title or even compete in a title fight then it should’nt matter how many fights you ve had. Lesner proved this by becoming champion after 4 fights.
If Cro Cop beats Dos Santos, i’m sure the UFC will set up a very interesting matchup for him. I’m sure they want to get some moneys worth out of Cro Cop this time around……. we might have another unofficial tournament going on again….
I believe that Joe Silva reads the interwebbies and realized that his fan base believe that the only test for Lesnar (at this point) is a match against Carwin… The size and the power of both men is going to intense, the cage might have to be reinforced in places.. We have long enough to debate who deserves what when and why but this is a rather interesting matchup
Seriously about the cage reinforcement.
Imagine if one of these two Neanderthals gets frustrated with stuffed takedowns and decides to run his opponent into the cage, literally?
We’d be looking at close to 600 pounds of humanity on fight night, if I’m doing the math correctly. I’m not sure the Octagon is traditionally built for sumo matches
To the surprise of no one I would like To see Carwin finish Lesnar in the first round with a shot so wicked that scrambles his DNA, but thats not how I’m thinking its going to go down…
I don’t think this bout is about who deserves it more but rather who offers the best test skill set wise. The refs may have to wear one red and one green armband to score this one.
As a true heavy I resemble that remark about cage reinforcement… haha I will say that in practice one time training with this guy who was a semi-pro football guy and we hit the ropes when I shot in and the thing needed repairs after haha. I can only imagine what two true powerhouses would due to that poor octagon, good thing it’ll be the last fight of the night.
People have to start realizing Joe Silva tries to make the best fights, regardless of rankings and what not. You can have the two best fighters in a division fight and then have people bored to tears because their skill sets overlap so much that it makes it a boring fight. Silva doesn’t always get it right but for the most part he puts together great and interesting fights about 90% of the time.
Once the cage is closed, Silva has nothing to do with anything. Ultimately, the fighters are the ones who decide whether a fight is good or not. Silva (to the best of my knowledge) has never stepped into the cage.
Joe Silva is in the cage after every single fight
Emphasis on AFTER, though, right? He’s not in there while the fighters are deciding the fight, correct?
Mir had Brock stumbling with a couple solid punches before it went to the mat in their fight. I don’t think it’s a question that carwin could knock lesnar out, but if lesnar decides to take carwin down, all bets are off…
I’m disappointed. That fight needed to happen to show who the real #1 contender is. Now we might have to look at Couture vs. Cain or Nog vs. Cain.
Cain gets the winner of Lesnar v Carwin ie automatic title shot!
I really hope this is BS, I really want to see Carwin and Cain instead.
Clearly this is one of those “business first” decisions, if it proves to be true.
And I’d say thats a big IF, considering the rash of sketchy reports we’ve gotten lately.
However for the sake of argument let’s say its true, and Carwin gets his shot at 106.
Consider the following:
- the UFC HW division has always been a step behind the other weight classes in talent, and by extension matchmaking options. It’s really no surprise that Velasquez get sidelined for now.
Also, as its been previously posted, Velasquez looked only so-so against Chieck Kongo, who is essentially a one dimensional stand-up fighter. I agree that he needs some more experience, and in the long run this only helps him, but in the short term its got to pi$$ him off severely.
- Carwin has twice as many fights as either Lesnar or Velasquez, and while I agree that none of these 3 has/had done enough to deserve a title shot, they’re just rolling with what Dana White throws at them. If anyone is going to get fast-tracked, I’d like it to be a solid citizen and a good sportsman like Carwin.
- IMO it bears mentioning that fast-tracking isn’t a recent thing, nor is it limited to just the HWs. I remember when Anderson Silva came in, he got a title shot after beating Chris Leben, and then the UFC tried to justify it by attributing it to some sort of lame-a$$ online fan poll. If you buy that story, I’m guessing you and Linus are waiting every Halloween out in the patch for the Great Pumpkin
This fast-tracking prematurely cost Rich Franklin his title, which is probably why you see him getting the help he does from the promotion currently. White knows he did the guy no favors, and has tried since to make amends to a fighter who is a company guy and great ambassador for the sport.
While I take White to task for fast-tracking guys in the first place, he has shown that he tries to “make things right” thereafter, which is more thna a lot of promoters would do.
- Yes, we all would have liked to have seen Carwin-Velasquez, but did anyone honestly think Carwin wasn’t going to win by caveman KO in the first round, just like he does all of his other fights?
Also, if Carwin and Velasquez did square off, who was Lesnar going to fight in the meantime? Remember, the HW division is all about the business of the sport, and with Lesnar as a white-hot draw, there was no way Dana White was going to shelve him for half a year while the other HWs sort things out.
Factoring in that Lesnar just killed Mir, BigNog and Couture go off in like 10 days, and guys like Dos Santos, Kongo, Mirko CroCop and Gabriel Gonzaga need some serious rep rehabilitation and/or quality cage time before the UFC even THINKS of putting them in with Lesnar, and Fedor again opted out for greener pastures. Almost by default either Carwin or Velasquez was “next in line”, so to speak, so they tapped the more experienced and impressive to date guy.
Not much of a revelation when you break it down.
Finally, from here on out, if you’re looking for “worthy title contenders”, I’d suggest trying one of the lower weight classes, but don’t get your hopes too high. The talent therein allows for multiple matchmaking options, and in some cases the UFC has become such an embarrassment of riches, guys like Demian Maia and Kenny Florian [before 101] are repeatedly waved off in favor of crossweight-class superfights and the like.
In the UFC, being a good fighter isn’t enough. You also have to be a good draw, or you’ll join Maia on the sidelines while your champion is adventuring in other weight classes and allowing his gold to tarnish from neglect…
Wikipedia has been updated to say that Velasquez has suffered an undisclosed injury. not sure if it’s true, but does this change anyone’s opinion?
Not to cast aspersions on any one person’s reputation, but I’d quietly question the legitimacy of an injury attributed to Velasquez after this thing with Carwin and Lesnar has already dropped.
It almost sounds like an old-school “face-saving” thing, as opposed to flat out admitting that the guy was passed over in favor of a bigger fight.
I know Velasquez’s “brown pride” must be hurting, and his supporters are pi$$ed off to the extreme, but ultimately his career will be better served, especially if all these sketchy reports turn out to be legit and he receives an automatic title shot by calling “winner” after 106…
Then answer this: Who is the #1 contender in your mind? And if you say there isn’t one, justify a title belt. As I said above, if you can’t put on a title fight every 4 months, you need to scrap the belt because it is meaningless.
Today, who is #1?
Brock just defended his belt last month, Carwin vs Velasquez made the most sense and everyone knows that Carwin-Velasquez was clearly going to show who is the next guy to face Brock. The UFC thought that they would bring in Fedor and Fedor would get a shot at Brock right away, but that didn’t happen so now they have nobody to face Brock so their putting in Carwin which can be justified, but still a win over Gonzaga is huge being that Gonzaga is a top contender, but it’s still doesn’t mean you should get a shot right away.
dbiz, you hate the talk about having to win a specific amount of fights to get a title shot, i can see your point on that, but if just anyone got title shots only for the sake of the title being defended than that wwould take all credibility away from the title itself. Sometimes it’s better to wait to have a better build up and it’s important that the right and deserving fighters get title shots because as the sport grows, you can’t just have a guy come off an “impressive win” and get a title shot it makes the sport look not as professional. There has to be a way to establish rankings that can clearly determine #1 contenders because if guys keep getting title shots without working their way to title shots we are going to have more guys like Thales Leites getting shots undeserving while watching guys like Demian Maia just sit on the sidelines when guys like Maia have actually cleaned out most of the division while guys like Carwin have not.
@ dbiz – just to be clear, I’m 100% fine with Carwin being fast-tracked to a title shot. I completely understand the situation, and while I feel for those who were looking forward to the Carwin-Velasquez throwdown, I can see where promotional needs at this time outweigh the needs of an individual fighter.
Why I consider it “fast-tracking” is simply because I haven’t seen Carwin beat anyone I consider a top HW [Mir, Couture, BigNog] besides Gonazaga, but other than that I think the UFC is making a smart call here.
In GENERAL I’ll always be opposed to men getting opportunities that they haven’t earned in the cage, but in this SPECIFIC case I’ll sleep easy knowing that the right thing was done.
If you read my other posts on this, you’ll see that I laid out the case for Velasquez being temporarily shelved in favor of Carwin’s title shot, which means that Lesnar, a big draw, won’t be sitting idle, along with the HW belt, for half a year while the other HWs sort themselves out.
As for not currently having a number one contender, thats pretty obvious. The Interim champ and the champ just threw down, and the top 2 contenders were to meet to determine a number one. Everyone pretty much assumed that Carwin would silverback his way past Velasquez, so they threw him a “gimme” and just moved him into a title match, which is understandable to everyone probably except Velasquez and his supporters.
The HW division was in a weird place with an Interim champion, but now that Mir lost and Lesnar is the king of the mountain, the UFC had 2 options. They could have either immediately named a number one contender after 100, and signed a fight between the two, or sign a “number one contender’s match”, which they did between Carwin and Velasquez. For the many reasons we’ve all touched on, most likely Fedor hightailing it over to the Strikeforce/M-1 Global/DREAM/Backyard Shootfighting league, that match was deemed unnecessary and Carwin was moved up.
As far as I’m concerned, there were two Lesnar options: give him Carwin, or give Mir his rubber match. They opted for Carwin, which is IMO the right call here, even though I’m a Mir supporter. Mir is going to hook and submit Kongo, and then start making noise about a title shot, ESPECIALLY if Carwin beats Lesnar…
I think you guys forget that Anderson silva got a title shot after beating chris leben. BJ penn got his shot at the lightweight title after beating jens pulver. I thought Gonzaga was going to take out Carwin, and really should of but Gonzaga wanted to try and take him down after getting him rocked. Carwin still looked good in recovering and knocking out gonzaga.
Then theres Carwin, theres way too much hype behind this kid. Especially after his last performance against Kongo, Cain is seriously lucky that Cheick couldn’t sprawl to save his life because it seemed like evertime cain got touched by cheick he was rocked.
I like the matchup with Cawrin-Lesnar, and i guess cain might fight gilbert yvel.
Anderson and BJ both had wins over impressive fighters before they fought for the title so bad example
It’s rumored Ben Rothwell will fight Cain next at 104.
I didn’t forget. I took a page out of the “Fedor Fandom For Nimrods” and am conveniently forgetting facts that don’t support my predisposed point of view.
guys, remember this is just a rumor at best. someone started it and it snowballed, we dont know who, and we dont know when. we have had debates like this for a few weeks with the wandy-bisping, hendo-ace, hendo-vitor, anderson not wanting to fight hendo issue… guys back up a bit, cool out, and wait until it is officialy announced through the UFC, or carwin’s twitter. carwin has yet to post on it about this. just sit back and take things as they go. no sense getting all hyped about a rumor.
if this is true its awesome for me, finally get to see brock get ko’d. cant wait. i will name my unborn son shane if he were to ko or beat brock, he11 i might even name my unborn daughter shane. it could work. i know of girls named guy names. and guys named girl names, *coughs, fedor*
SPIDER out…
“ON AUGUST 8, 2009 ANDERSON SILVA MADE FORREST GRIFFIN LOOK LIKE AN AMATEUR, AND ON AUGUST 8, 2009 GUNSLINGER MADE BIGCHRIS 2328 LOOK LIKE A CASUAL FAN ”
Name your kid after the dude who beats Lesnar…LOL, wish my girl was pregnant so I could follow suit haha
Just popping in for a minute, I haven’t read the comments, got so much other stuff going on right now, sorry if I repeat anything.
This is a good match up, I can’t think of anyone else to have Brock defend against at this point. I have to think they are doing this to make sure that the UFC has a counter to Fedor’s November Strikeforce debut. I don’t like that there are rumors that Velasquez will basically be able to sit idle until he gets his next shot, he should have to fight someone else. I would like to see Cain v. Yvel at 104 (as I think has been mentioned), and I think Yvel would KO Cain.
Anyways, just wanted to throw my two pennies in.
MAN I’M SO PUMPED FOR THIS FIGHT… CARWIN IS THE ONLY GUY THAT CAN ACTUALLY WRESTLE WITH BROCK IMO AND WE ALL KNOW HE CAN KTFO BROCK… I CAN’T STAND BROCK AND I HATE SEEING HIM ON TOP. IS THIS THE SAME DATE FOR SF (FEDOR)? IF IT IS GOOD MOVE IMO
How do we know Carwin can KO Brock? Brock might have a granite chin.
It was the “Big Wigs” at Anheuser-Busch…They told the boys at Zuffa to get Brock the hell outta there ASAP for the disrespect….
doubt it
I agree with Dbiz. All you guys need to get over ranking these guys. The HW divison is thin at best, now not only do have a great fight that will get over a million buys, but you also have a contender for after. This also goes to the people complaining about the lack of PPV’s with title defenses in the next couple of months. REMEMBER THIS IS A BUSINESS 1st. Which is why BJ gets to fight GSP withou having to face a top WW or why Brock gets a title shot after 2 UFC fights. Get over it, you will have a much happier life.
I agree with Dbiz and I agree with u even more!!!
I agree with Dbiz and I agree with Bzul3 and I agree with you even more!
Alot of people are saying that Carwin does’nt deserve a title fight on here because he has’nt fought high enough calibre fights and that he does’nt deserve to be no.1 contender but no one has actually said who they believe should be the no1 contender instead. I agree with the guys on here who say that it should nt matter how many fights you ve had if your good enough then it makes sense. Silva fought for the title after Leben and Penn fought GSP erlier this year at welterweight after not fighting welterweight or beating any other welerweights for a long time but people did nt moan then and say he was nt deserving.
Keep in mind, as I’ve previously posted, that BJ Penn is a former UFC WW champion, which justifies him getting a title opportunity against GSP.
Not strongly justifies IMO, and I say this as a longtime Penn supporter, but justifies to a certain extent. Yes, guys like Florian and Alves had to wait until the GSP-Penn superfight had dropped, but did anyone REALLY think that either man had a chance to unseat the champions?
If you thought Alves could beat GSP, or Florian could beat Penn, if Penn came into the fight straight, then I have some bad news for you as it concerns Santa and the Easter Bunny…
I agree with u on the Florian vs Penn, but to say that no one had a legitimate reason for thinking Alves would beat GSP is a ridiculous. Its easy to say that now, but heading into that fight Alves was a very legitimate threat and for good reason. I love GSP and im still surprised he beat him that easily.
I understand your point jcohl, and the whole santa and easter bunny thing was hella funny dude. But i have to say, if i stop and logically think about it, penn and couture didn’t deserve immediate title shots. They just didn’t deserve it. I don’t care who you are and what you did way back when. If that’s the case then why don’t they give matt hughes the next title shot @ gsp? Why doesn’t mark coleman challenge brock instead of carwin? I get your point, but imho it’s just business. That’s why penn vs gsp 2 happened, that’s why couture came back and fought sylvia and that’s why brock fought couture and is now fighting carwin. That’s just the way it is. You can’t have a growing sport without profit. I get it. But Penn @ ww, nah dude, he should have atleast fought alves first. Couture, @ his age, should have fought someone else before a title shot even though he beat syliva. I just don’t agree with that. No disrespect dude, but imho there are reasons for weight classes and the reason you’re not just “the champion” but instead you’re either the light weight champ, the welterweight champ, the heavyweight champ and so on.
Please let me be clear here when I say that in no way, shape, or form do I condone any sort of fast-tracking or cross-weight superfights.
I’ve posted on this issue before, but I just wanted to make my position clear, particularly to those regular posters who kick this stuff around with me on a day in, day out basis.
I thought it was wrong when Anderson Silva got fast-tracked into a fight with Rich Franklin, I thought it was stupid for Penn and GSP to square off when they had contenders waiting, and I thought it was stupid for Silva and Griffin to square off at 101 while Demian Maia cools his heels and Mauricio Rua got Griffin’s shot against Machida.
And this is going to sound funny coming from a guy who has a signed [by Couture] and framed UFC 68 promo poster as the solitary “art piece” in his living room, but I didn’t think that the Natural deserved the shot he got against Tim Sylvia, but that didn’t stop me from nearly bankrupting myself [at the time] in order to go to the event, and didn’t stop me from standing in line for hours with broken bones in my foot and a stupid grin on my fanboy face just to shake Couture’s hand and get him to sign my stupid poster.
I’m opposed to seeing GSP fight Anderson Silva as well.
That being said, I understand the financial motivations behind signing these seemingly unnecessary “superfights”. Considering as how there is nothing we as fans can do to stop Dana White’s, “look Ma, no hands!” style of matchmaking, I’m just trying to find a way to live with it, and one of those ways is humor.
No I don’t like the trend of the business aspect of MMA outweighing the sport of MMA when it comes to matchmaking, but I’m trying to deal with it as best as I can, especially after Brock Lesnar beat Couture and then Frank Mir.
You may have read one of my posts expressing my displeasure at those outcomes.
As for it being ridiculous to think that GSP was going to school Alves, I’ll just repeat what I’ve said previously, in that GSP IMO is the finest MMA fighter on the planet, the best p4p guy in the sport, MMA’s equivalent of Wayne Gretzky or Michael Jordan, and the archetypical mixed martial artist for the 21st century, which is why I frequently refer to GSP as the DNA of MMA.
And of course GSP did school Alves while rocking an injured groin, but thats besides the point, right?
Jcohl, dude you crack me up! “look ma no hands”? that’s f**** funny dude! Thanks for responding. I totally agree and i guess better understand you’re point. I find myself trying hard to accept that our beloved sport has become a business and that we have a money hungry Don King @ the very top of it all! So atleast i’m not alone
I think it’s awesome that you went through all that just to check out your idol. I was the same way when Barry Bonds was around!
I think we will continue to have a Don King type at the top of MMA in America until the sport has gone through its ‘teenage’ years in America. Once MMA is a more mature sport with lots more serious and hardcore fans, then the system will be more settled. Especially as we will have a lot more fighters by then too.
Oh and didn’t GSP hit Alves with his groin as he was told to?
I find this whole argument against “fast-tracking” a little flawed. Rich Franklin was given a title shot back then because he already had 3 wins in the UFC, had only one loss in his record, and was considered a great talent. Not only did he prove to be worthy of “fast-tracking” by becoming champion, but successfully defended his title twice. Anderson Silva got fast-tracked because he is quite possibly the greatest fighter in the world. I don’t care how many wins other fighters had in the UFC, Silva was the best in that division from the moment he came over. Looking back, BJ Penn doesn’t seem deserving of his shot against GSP, yet his champion and top-ten p4p status, having been a previous WW champ, and his previous war with GSP indicated he was more than worthy. No one expected GSP to be THAT great, that’s all. I didn’t see anything wrong with Alves having to wait in the wings, because as you stated, he didn’t really have a shot at beating the champ.
Truth is certain guys have to put a lot of wins together before they are given a title shot. Maia, whom you like to mention, is a great example. Where’s his win over Hendo, Marquardt, or Okami? He hasn’t beaten a top-five fighter in that division. Not only that, but he’s a one-dimensional fighter. He has NO shot at beating Anderson. He will either get killed in the stand up or lay on his back like a turtle a la Leites. I much rather see a Silva-Henderson rematch, since Dan won the first round of their first match and then showed his KO power against Bisping. Florian also had to wait. Why? Because as we saw he got outclassed in his title bout. Someone like Sanchez gets fast-tracked only because he will probably stand with Penn, like he did with Guida, which will make a much more interesting and entertaining fight than the one Florian put up. Even Machida had to wait. He took much lesser fighters to decision in his first three fights in a stacked division, so it cost him. Once he dominated a former champ in Tito and KO’d an undefeated striker in Silva, he got his much deserved shot.
People like Randy and Brock get fast-tracked because they are either a legend who can beat people when you least expect it, or a freak of nature who’s taken over a division after only 5 mma fights.
Carwin is the best guy to fight Lesnar right now. Cain would have NO shot. He’s less experienced, his stand up is suspect as we saw against Kongo (Carwin got rocked, true, but against a much more complete fighter in Gonzaga), and there’s no way he’s out-wrestling another skilled wrestler who weighs 50 or 60lbs more than him.
you honestly believe that Maia will “turtle” up against anyone? I’ve never seen him do that, he doesn’t mind standing he just realizes that he isn’t the best at it, but he isn’t the worst either… He transititons from standing straight to subbing people flawlessly but hey I will stop attempting to make sense and just say asldf asldhkf osiduf jsdjf ds ejfoweshfn dsofl sdfj awoeithsdfnk hdfn f8uu elkf eklfje fejf lsekfj hj
That is the most logical argument I’ve see on here in months, FR. Thank you for the insight.
This makes perfect business sense and I was waiting for something like this to happen. You can not have Brock Lesnar waiting around, knowing that any PPV that has his name on it will sells over a million, so you have to have an opponent for him. Shane Carwin is a perfect opponent, imagine how many sales the UFC will get after lots of advertising of Carwin’s big knockout power and all the Lesnar hype from UFC100?? The adverts will create such a big hype about Carwin being unbeaten and Brock being unbeatable now.
I think the UFC also decided that it will be best to keep both Carwin and Cain unbeaten as it means the hype for both their title fights can be bigger. Fight fans will get more hyped about someone fighting the champ who is unbeaten. It means they both keep their records and Cain will get the next title shot. Though if he loses to Yvel, then my idea goes to pot and the next title shot in fact goes to Captain America or Big Nog…
great points
Carwin has a bunch of wins, all finished in the 1st round, and the only respectable fighter in the 11 is gonzaga (who is not a HW top ten or anything). He is a hyped up fighter that is no better than rogers (who has the same resume with an undefeated record all in the 1st round, almost all ko’s, and a victory over a top ten HW) Carwin is big guy and a big puncher who would be destroyed on the groound; just like rogers. Neither is a top 5 HW who should be wearing a belt just yet.
Did ppl actually watch the gonzaga match? He did not look that great. If gonzaga had taken it to the ground it would have been all over for carwin BUT carwin got in a punchers chance and gonzaga hit the mat. In a best out of five series I would place money on gonzaga taking 3. All this is, is a win win fight for the UFC as long a they keep these hyped up fighters away from a real soldier like Big Nog.
Carwin has very little MMA/fighting exp… is on the older side, it’ll be a fun thing to watch (and I love Carwin as a person) but Carwin is in for a rude awakening when he brawls with his 1st top 5 HW…
carwin is national wrestling champ dont see him being “destroyed on the groound”
Good point but keep in mind that he has no matial arts/submission background – and he was a champ in division 2 college wrestling (that is a BIG diffence from division 1 at the colligaite level)… lots of UFC fighters have much better wrestling cred then that and they get destroyed on the ground.
Oh, and that was 10 years ago… Carwin came to MMA late in the life of a fighter (4 years ago) which is gonna cause him a steep learning curve. This is also not his main occupation and that weighs against him as well.
I really like Carwin the person and I’d love to see him take the belt but I have to be a realist with all the hype he is getting.
Lesnar was a division I champ who pretty much dominated everyone in the country that year other than the guy he beat in the finals(Wes Hand). He also was an NJCAA champ, and he lost to Dan Hodge Award winner Stephen Neal his junior year(finishing 2nd). Compiling a 106-5 collegiate record… I think John is somewhat justified in his belief that Lesnar is the better wrestler.
Carwin was a Division II champ(which don’t get me wrong is amazingly hard to do). However, do you think University of Minnesota-Duluth would beat the University of Florida in football? Because that’s the difference between Division I and Division II.
Basically, don’t use a National Title argument for saying he’d be able to stop him from dominating on the ground when the guy he’s fighting has a higher ranked national title. Now if you want to say Carwin has more MMA experience and that will keep him safe on the ground feel free.
John…Carwin has 5 wins by submission. He seems to know a little something about them.
ive been waiting for this fight. imo i thought that carwin would school cain and get the shot anyway. Im hoping carwin ko’s brock just becuase i hate the guys guts. brocks a good wrestler n likes to get ya to the ground and jerk off on ur forehead but he uses his size advantage against everyone he fights and atleast in this fight he wont have much of a size advantage. Carwin via 2nd round ko.
I think its safe to say that Carwin brings superior striking and MMA experience to the fight, while Lesnar [on paper] has superior wrestling and a developing but effective catch-wrestling game.
If you don’t think his catch-wrestling game is effective, just ask Frank Mir about being seatbelt’ed on the mat at 100.
Size, cage command, stamina, and strength seem about equal, while I give Lesnar an advantage in aggressiveness and Carwin [on paper] an edge in intelligence.
Lesnar also has an advantage in terms of quality of opposition. To the best of my knowledge the only HW of distinction Carwin has fought has been Gabriel Gonzaga, and Lesnar has fought Couture and Mir twice.
As much as it pains me to say this, my initial reaction is to pick Lesnar by ref stoppage, probably in the 2nd or 3rd round. If the fight goes any longer than that, both guys will need RedBull pumped thru an IV between rounds to make it to 20 or even 25 minutes…
I know how much that pained you to say that…
I truly did, chrisl, but I meant it when I said that I try to keep things grounded in my posts. When I look at both guys, and think about it objectively after several long deep breaths, I see Lesnar unfortunately winning this fight.
Do I hope I’m wrong?
ABSOLUTELY.
But picking Carwin to win just because I hate the sort of competitor Lesnar has revealed himself [to date] to be does a disservice to myself, the sport, and my friends here at the frenZy…
It’ll be interesting to see how Brock responds if Carwin catches him with a solid shot.If Brock shows that he in fact has a granite chin,I think he may hold onto that belt for a while.
My guess would be that if Lesnar actually gets clocked, he’ll most likely go into silverback survival mode, and LITERALLY go ape-sh!t on Carwin.
That sort of approach with men at this size will lead to someone getting KTFO’ed very shortly after Carwin hypothetically catches Lesnar.
@chrisl, i understand your argument about D-1, and D-2, but thats not always the case. sometimes go to D-1 schools because they didnt qualify academically for D-1, or a D-2 school is closer to home and they have a family member dying, or their kid is born or something like that. some of the time the D-2 guys are just as skilled athletically as the D-1 guys, they might have “blossomed” late and didnt get hyped recruiting like the other guys did. dont say all D-2 athletes are lesser skilled than D-1 guys. im not saying you did, but its not always true that they are. and… dont forget that appalachian state beat michigan a few years back. that was D-2 beating D-1. im sure the top 5 D-2 schools can beat the bottom D-1 schools. Washington didnt win 1 game last year, Michigan was in their turnaroun, Notre Dame looked awful. im sure it can happen. now as far as a D-2 school beating the amazingly talented and fast football teams like Florida, and OU… he11 no. not even the top college teams can do that. Florida seems to have a NFL team going with the speed they have at every position.
ON AUGUST 8, 2009 ANDERSON SILVA MADE FORREST GRIFFIN LOOK LIKE AN AMATEUR, AND ON AUGUST 8, 2009 GUNSLINGER MADE BIGCHRIS 2328 LOOK LIKE A CASUAL FAN ”
Great Point about D1 and D2 wrestlers bigchris. We can also look at it this way. GSP is division nothing in wrestling and has outwrestled the best wrestlers in mma.
IMO is carwin catches brock with one of his bombs than lesnar is going down and we are in for a 4.0 earthquake. Mir caught lesnar with some decent shots and it looked like lesnar was dazed by them. Imagine if carwin lands a big shot on him? But if brock can somehow take carwins shot and not go down, i suspect that jcohls, right and that brock will go nuts on carwin and cut his heart out and eat it.
I don’t buy the Velazquez/Carwin hype at all. I still think Brock will bulldozer right through both of them.
1)Gonzaga took Carwin down rather easily/immediately and he’s nowhere in the wrestling realm of Lesnar in size, power, athleticism.
2)Carwin was rocked and the fight could have ended just as easily in the other direction, so I’m still not convinced as to how much adversity he’s faced in the octagon.
I’d still like to see what mark Junior Dos Santos can make in the division. But aside from these 3 (Dos Santos, Carwin, Cain) there clearly is not one legitimate force to be reckon with Brock. Cro Cop is done IMO.
I mean, Pat Smith is still listed under the UFC’s heavyweight roster. If that’s not a joke, I don’t know what is. Pat Smith? his last fight was 1995..lol.
I say bring Paul Buentello back, he needs a home to fight and has always entertained me.
You can’t complain about cards that don’t have title bouts and also complain about all the title bouts the UFC puts on. That dosn’t make sense.. and regardless it is exciting because there is always a punchers chance (unless you’re fighting anderson silva or machida LOL)
Ok, I don’t understand any of the who deserves title shots whining, to me it’s about who’s the best fighter at the time, not who was the best, or who’s fought the most big names.
There is no one else in the ufc hw division that deserves a title shot sooner then carwin, cain’s fight with kongo was not as impressive as carwin’s fight with gonzanga.
I think it should go like this, carwin vs lesnar
for couture vs nogueira, if couture wins have him fight winner of dos santos vs crocop for title opportunity
If nogueira wins have him be next in line for a title shot, he was barely at 50% in his fight with mir, and that loss should not send him back down the hw ladder much
loser of carwin vs lesnar should fight cain early next year, in feb/march, cain getting a title shot if he wins, carwin/lesnar needing 1 more win after cain for a title shot
It was showing cain vs rothwell for ufc 104 on the ufc website, but it’s not there right now, mabye cain is injured.
OK, Did anyone watch the Carwin Gonzaga fight. Carwin was rocked on the second punch. Hummmmm I think brock has more punching power than Gonzaga. Then there is the people saying Cain, HMMMMMMM Congo rocked him everytime he was standing. Wow once again I think Brock has more power. Neither of these two can even match up but we will see. Brock has to fight someone. Why not crush one of these two’s eyesocket two. Then maybe the ground game right. Carwin was taken down by Gonzaga and only got up with power wait big difference between 220 and 285 trying to hold you down. Then Cain’s ground game looks worse then Brock’s first fight. Nog would be the best chance at beating Brock as a contender now. Look every fight Brock has had he has been the under dog and look this time again. When are people going to relize that he is a good fighter. Maybe not the best but neither was coture or lidell when they had 4 ufc fights. Hey but hell could freeze over.