Brock Lesnar: Much Ado About Nothing (Editorial)
The dust and remnants following the uber-hyped UFC 100 have finally settled and as one might imagine, quite a few storylines have emerged from the bloody rubble. At the center of the most hotly debated topic in town is none other than former WWE superstar turned failed NFL lineman turned UFC heel, Brock Lesnar.
Most of the articles I’ve been reading around the blogosphere (including some serious debate from you guys) have focused primarily on whether or not Lesnar’s ever-present professional wrestler attitude is good or not so good for mixed martial arts.
Personally, I subscribe to the semi-popular belief that Brock can do no further damage to the sport than what has already been done via TUF antics, the Diaz brothers, or Dana White tirades. Make no mistake: Nobody, not even Brock Lesnar, can be bad for MMA if they perform and draw the way that Lesnar does. Was Tito Ortiz bad for MMA when his shtick was carrying the UFC hype machine? The guy was a jackass, sure. But he drew. And more eyes felt the warm glow of UFC pay-per-views just to see what would happen to the punk you loved to hate so much.
I say let Brock be Brock. I genuinely don’t care. Maybe its the apathetic nihilist in me, but come on, do you really care that much about what Brock Lesnar says in his post-fight soliloquies? I know I know, this is MMA and the WWE theatrics should be left to McMahon and company, I concede that such remains a legitimate argument. However on the flip side, if a man chooses to play the heel yet continues to compete at the highest level of the sport without becoming too much of a prima donna, I simply do not see the harm.
I don’t work for Budweiser, I don’t care if Frank Mir’s feelings were hurt regarding the eloquent horseshoe comment, and from what I can tell Lesnar’s wife was none too upset at the mention of her champ “getting on top of her” all neander-style. “I beat man, have good drink, take woman to cave.” It’s primitive, but it’s also fairly accurate in Brock Lesnar’s case. The man ain’t a neurosurgeon, people. He’s an alpha-male, whether he knows what the term means or not.
Here’s a thought, or conspiracy theory rather, so take it for what you will. But I believe there remains an antiquated concept of what mixed martial arts should be that is driving at least some of the latest Lesnar criticism. UFC 1 saw Royce Gracie prove that technique schools size and strength, and it was a glorious thing to revel in.
Those who witnessed the victorious undersized Brazilian could rejoice knowing that the stereotypical schoolyard bully no longer posed the same threat. That dopey bastard would have no idea how to fend off a simple arm bar. It would almost be too easy. Admittedly, when my MMA addiction first began to take root I was highly taken in by the concept of someone my size (very short and scrawny at the time) being able to force a physically imposing jerk to tap out from some crazy leg lock that I pulled out of nowhere. Sucka.
Ninety-nine UFC’s later; Brock Lesnar comes along and momentarily disproves the core principle of modern mixed martial arts, which early UFC events had largely created. This time the less polished, overpowering, grunting gorilla, who could certainly never maneuver his legs for a proper gogoplata, dominates the smarter, sharper technician. Darwin would not be proud.
And so, some of us freak out feeling as if we have just entered the plutonium fueled DeLorean back to the heydays of Frye, Coleman or Randleman- guys who only made a buck because they were bigger and stronger (and juiced.) Uncivilized, unsophisticated, testosterone-driven men who were all too happy to ground and pound like a pack of wild cro-mags unaware of any other weapons in the MMA arsenal.
But I say fear not to those clinging to fighters like Emelianenko, Machida, Penn and A. Silva. There are plenty of these crafty devils to go around, and when their time has passed others will spawn. Brock Lesnar on the other hand is a mere genetic anomaly. We cannot copy and paste more of them, not that the government wouldn’t try if they thought it possible.
So let’s all take a step back for a second. Let’s relax. Let’s appreciate that the UFC heavyweight division has a champion who creates compelling match ups across the board. Let us wait another fight or two to see if Brock Lesnar’s “era” has truly begun before we start burning down jiujitsu schools and dead lifting until nauseous. Let us admit without inducing a panic attack that even in 2009, a big oaf with limited technique can rely heavily on his physical gifts to destroy decorated black belts.
It’s not the end of the world. It’s just a jerk who can hit hard and smother people. He happens to come from professional wrestling, and you can tell. But the man is no more harmful to mixed martial arts than any other larger-than-life athlete was to their respective sport. Brock Lesnar’s rise, while controversial, only threatens those who fear change, which is painfully ironic since evolution is precisely what makes MMA the beloved, complex animal that it is. Now can we please talk about Georges St. Pierre for a minute? Alright, next time.
Tags: Brock Lesnar
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Excellent article, bud. I believe that the more controversial Brock is (to a point) the more ppv buys he will bring in. People will wanna pay to see him get beat, and if that doesn’t happen, at least they know someone is getting a dirty beating. Brock is the only one being REAL! Frank mir talked so much crap to him before the fight, why would he want to shake his hand after? As far as the soonser bashing, well, that doesn’t make sense, but I don’t blame him for still having heat with mir after.
Thats totally correct let Brock be Brock because when the time comes someone will dethrone him…I know it will be Shane Carwin because I have said it from day 1 whenever Shane came to the UFC..Shane will K.O. Mr big mouth Lesnar and send him packing back to the WWE…
umm, hows carwins ground game? u know, just in case
Yes and no. I’m done with Lesnar’s fights. I’m not picking them in fantasy, I’m not watching them come PPV. Just as I didn’t watch anything about Mask’s Driving School when they went over the HOF stuff at 100.
He may be the champ, but that doesn’t mean I have to give a ****. I don’t and I won’t.
“It’s not the end of the world. It’s just a jerk who can hit hard and smother people.” – Hahaha, I love it. Great read Eric and it puts things into perspective.
your right! he is a d-bag, but so what? so is bisbang! so what, they all get knocked the **** out one day. and the bigger a-hole they are, and the longer they go on winning, the more fun it is to watch them get knocked out
!!!!!!!!!
Well said sir!
Loved the article. Great read! I happen to like Brock.
Like you said, he’s real! and he doesn’t give a ****! Love it! “I might just get on top of my wife tonight.” BEAUTIFUL.
well written piece eric, again, i like how you blend humor into your peices. “I beat man, have good drink, take woman to cave.” It’s primitive, but it’s also fairly accurate in Brock Lesnar’s case, this is very funny and true.
i think the main reason some of us here are upset/mad/pissed/whatever with brock is his complete lack of disrespect to everyone. jcohl pointed it out on another topic and its true and put things in perspective for me. martial arts is about respecting your opponent and others [among many other things] and brock openly said he doesnt, sure he was honest and i give him points for honesty, but that aint right. im going to let things be, and move on to gsp and hendo’s situations which are more important than brock imo.
Great great editorial. The thing is this, we are all going to have to get used to him. he is not going anywhere. Yes he is brash, obnoxious, down right disrespectful, but so what. As Eric Bischoff once said controversy creates cash. Just wait, he will only get better from here on out!!!!
I here so much talk about how genetically gifted this guy is, is there any doubt that he has and is probably still using human growth hormone. One of the only drugs you must extract muscle to test for. I mean he grow a couple of inches in when he was 18. Which is normal when taking HGH. I mean I’ve spent my life in gyms, and trained all types of people, I know a user when I see one.
I don’t disargee he is good for the sport, but come on, he is good for the sport like Mark Mcguire was good for baseball.
One final phrase, split the division.
There are plenty of doubts as to whether he has used PEDs.
As far as splitting the division, there are hardly enough HWs as it is to have a really competitive division, why cut that number in half?
the weight difference is too big.
do the split !
Note also, you don’t extract muscle to test for HgH. It is done via a blood test. And thank you for throwing random accusations out there to disparage fighters.
Not only was I uncomfortable reading those posts that accused Lesnar of juicing, one of them actually put me in the unfamiliar position of taking up for the man that I’d been verbally cruciying the last several days. The undertaking of which almost made me break out in hives, but I did it in the interests of fairness to Lesnar, and my love of the sport…
Actually muscle would only tell you how much testosterone was there, not accurate HGH levels, since those HGH levels would be skewed by the fact that HGH is used up in cell reproduction. You need a blood sample for HGH and even then distinguishing between normal and abnormal is tricky and unreliable. This is due to multiple factors including the fact that baseline readings for HGH vary so widely from person to person, since the body naturally produces a good amount during sleep to help with the regeneration of dead cells all over the body. So if more cells are dying from things like fighting more HGH is produced.
The only way people have been truly been “proven” (lately at least) to have taken extra HGH is due to a paper trail. Look at the baseball players who have been hit for it. Not a single one failed a test for HGH but a paper trail was shown that proved they bought it.
As for Lesnar I can tell you for a fact that he is a genetic freak. I wish I could find an article in sports illustrated that was done before he won the NCAA’s(when he was at minnesota). He was bigger then and testing was more strict in NCAA wrestling than almost every sport at the time. In the article it talks about how he had his first hernia throwing bales of hay at 5. He’s a genetic freak and may have used during the WWE days but he has not been on them his whole life. There is enough of a stigma now that if he used and failed a test in the past we’d know. I mean we heard Sammy Sosa and ARod failed tests in which names weren’t supposed to be attached to the samples so believe me we’d know.
Great editorial, but you are failing to recognize that Lesnar is a wrestler and wrestlers do three thing: Wrestle, Throw Haymakers, and Avoid Submissions. I don’t see any difference between Lesnar’s style and Matt Hughes’ style during his championship reign. Take a look at St. Pierre’s last 3-4 fights, all he does is ground and pound. Takes guys down, don’t let them up, and pound them. A few guys can be like Machida, Fedor, Penn or Silva. Being a Mixed Martial Artist doesn’t mean owning different styles of Martial Arts, it means knowing the weaknesses of each different style and exploiting it. Lesnar is what the HW Division needs…it is the weakest division in the UFC. Bash Lesnar all you want…but I can only think of 1 guy that can hang: Fedor. But what is worse for the sport are fights like Anderson Silva vs. Thales Leties, poor judging, and bad refereeing. Millions of people watch these PPVs and fights were a champion doesn’t aggressively defend his championship turns people off from the sport more than a Lesnar Tirade!
I appreciate the fact that a lot of people are disturbed with brock’s lack of respect for not only his peers but martial arts as well. I understand, but what i don’t understand is why this discussion about respect for the art and for the fighters wasn’t had, or isn’t discussed everytime “The Prodigy” BJ Penn fights. BJ is the exact same way, or even worse. BJ disrespects his opponents ALL the time, talks trash and worst of all, half asses his training against championship bouts. This tude IMO has disrespected his peers and the art just as much as brock has. I’m not at all saying it’s kool what brock said and did, i’m just saying that if you don’t like or respect brock lesnar, cut the foreplay and just say that and stop talking about respecting martial arts and the fighter because there are so many fighters who behave just like lesnar did. I don’t really care about brock lesnar, hell i’m sure carwin will knock him out, i’d just respect the brock haters more if they were honest about the reasons they don’t like him.
I agree 100%…….BJ Penn is a mental midget. No focus, holds chokes after taps, likes his bloody gloves, and then whines about “GreaseGate.” But he is a true Mixed Martial Artist, so he is in the clique!
I agree with what you said about Silva v. Leites, poor judging, and bad refereeing.
I think a bad job on the part of the judges does more to support any claims of MMA being like WWE than an over the top rant by a behemoth jacked up on a full dose of adrenalin.
A poor showing by a champion like Anderson Silva did against Leites will turn off casual fans who want to see the champ actually trying to defend his belt, and bad refereeing helps those that claim MMA is unsafe.
Brock can be easily written off as the exception to the rule when it comes to the professionalism of MMArtists. People have done that for years with Nick Diaz, who as the article and myself have pointed out time and again is much worse for the sport.
love the editorial, my 2c…
Brock doesnt do anything to legitimize a sport that is in many ways in its infancy, and is trying to go mainstream.
“Let us wait another fight or two to see if Brock Lesnar’s “era” has truly begun before we start burning down jiujitsu schools and dead lifting until nauseous.”
-That was the funniest thing i’ve heard it a while!
Man jcohl is gonna be pi$$ed when he reads this.
haha your awesome dude,
oh yeah, but to his credit [jcohl] he has relaxed on this brock issue. the reason jazzkok that people are not mentioning bj or the diaz brothers is because we dont want to bring up old issues and start bashing bj, [gsp did enough of that in their fight], i laid off of the bj issue because i started to sound like a broken record player. thats also the reason this brock issue has died down, i for one have decided to leave this issue alone and wait for brock to get handled in his next fight with either carwin or fedor [even though i think fedor will be neutralized and ened up like mir]. and mr batman [brucewayne] please dont be like many other ignorant people and think brock is taking PED’s or any other mma guys. maybe brock got that big by putting the time in in the gym and eating right. there is a thing called hardwork and paying your dues to get muscle and strength. and if brock is using then i apologize, but dont hate on anyone because they bust their butts to get big and then you blame it on roids or PED’s
Anztar,
Sorry to dissapoint you dude, but I don’t hate bj penn. The only fighters on my fight club list are bisping and frank shamrock. Can’t stand those 2! But if you’ve read what i’ve said about bj before(obviously you have), i’ve always said that bj is a great fighter but that he was just acting like a little **** before AND after gsp whooped on him. Having said that, i was just providing examples to support my argument about Brock Lesnar not being the only one who “has no respect for mma and it’s fighters”. I chose BJ as an example cuz he was the first to come to mind. Frank shamrock, babalu, the diaz brothers, amongst many more who have completely disrespected the sport AND the fighters. I will repeat myself for the last time, it wasn’t kool what brock did, but everyone PLEASE stop talking about respect. Seriously dude, it’s almost pathetic when obviously you(general) simply just don’t like Brock for Brock. Don’t use his “antics” or behaviour as an excuse to talk ****. Just come out and say “i don’t like brock lesnar because he’s a huge caveman with no real skills and the only reason he got a shot @ the ufc is because of his size and name”. That isn’t so hard is it?
I dont understand how you guys can compare Brocks WWE antics to anything any other fighter has done in the past. Brock by far and away showed the worst possible side of this sport on the sports biggest night.
Brock Vs Tito- I for the most part have no problem with Brock talking trash to Mir at the end of the fight, Tito did it and that made for alot of nice rivalries. but there is a line you cant go and bad mouth the sponsors like that or disrespect the fans. I was at Tito’s last fight and i will tell you 90% of that place was there cheering for Tito. with that said even Dana (despite his hate for Tito) has never had to come out and say once how he was publicly embarrassed about what happened during one of Tito fights.
Brock Vs BJ- This to me is just Jazzkok hating BJ more than anything else, cause he loves GSP so much. Yes Bj has hyped fights by going negative, its standard practice in most fighting sports to do so and I had no problem with what Brock said prior (or as i stated above) to or after the fight. But BJ has always gotten up and shook his opponents hand, did he continue to bad mouth Sherk after destroying him? no, he actually said he was sorry for what he said he was trying to make this the biggest fight possible and have you hear a peep from BJ about Florian yet? all the people hating on BJ are just huge GSP fans that are so myopic they will never let anything go. Im also tired of the BJ doesnt train hard BS, when he fight at his non natural weight class yes he isnt ripped. Guess what he a LW! he shouldnt be fighting WW divison, but hes just that talented that not only can he move up but he can beat the Champ at his prime when he looked unstoppable. BJ as a LW is as cut as he will ever be and in great shape, you will see that in 3 weeks in Philly.
As far as the fans perspective, when you watch the WWE you dont get outraged at the over the to things they say or do…why? cause you think its a joke from the start. thats what i dont think alot of you are seeing, you look at the casual fans reaction and say well they didnt mind it. But thats cause there are a ton of people that dont take this sport seriously yet. They think its a side show act, so when an athlete says something retarded on the mic they could careless. had Kobe Bryant done something like that after the NBA finals people would have cared and been outraged, MMA hasent reached that level and never will while mainstream society see this as a step above the WWE. which is why Dana has always pushed the “these guys are athletes and sportsman angle”. Its how Zuffa took a bankrupt freak show and changed it into a billion dollar sport, they took all the BS away and presented as something closer to boxing than the WWE and thats why im personally pissed at what Brock did and why he told Dana he was embarrassed for his actions.
I’ll give you that Brock is the only person to bash the sponsors (to my knowledge), but outside of that, I don’t see how he did anything worse than what some other fighters have done at various times.
He’s not the first to bash sponsors he’s just the first to to be noticed doing it so loudly. If you watch a lot of the guys do little things or say something that is directed towards the sponsors. Lesnar just was blatant about it.
Aznstar, I have one thing to say: this is mma, which is a real sport right? Yet you’re commending bj and all the other guys for talking “fake” trash. If they are buddies after the fight and tell the fans they were just trying to sell the fight, how does that legitimize the sport? Brock asking mir if he wanted more after he beat him was what should happen after every “heated rivalry”. The only time hands should be shook is when the fighters do have respect for each other. Gsp never talks trash, which is fine, and after he beats a guy he shakes their hand, but mir belittled Brock before the fight. It reminds me of how much crap Matt serra talked on hughes, if I was Matt hughes, I would of never shook hands after, they aren’t friends and never will be. I dunno guys, it just seems like brock can never win, people will always be negative towards him, despite all the exposure he is giving mma.
1st i said i dont really care what was said to Mir. I know your not always gonna like your opponent, thats fine and not the issue i have with him. My main thing is his post fight garbage with the finger to the fans and sponsor bashing. 2nd just cause you talked trash and respect your opponent after a war it doesnt make it fake. It happens in all major sports, especially boxing and it doesnt make those sports fake.
BJ has said after a couple different fights that all the trash talking he did was fake and solely to hype the fight. He is not the only fighter I have known to do this. The fake trash talking just to hype a fight, I would rather not have because I do think it cheapens the sport.
I have to agree with Justin. “fake” trash talk only hurts the credibility of the fight.
On another note, do all of you really think that ALL of what not only BJ says, but other fighters say to hype a fight is fake? My theory that has been proved many times and recently as well, is that fighters who truly deslike or hate eachother going into a fight, have more respect for eachother after they’ve fought and “battled” in the octagon. Hughes vs serra, hardy vs davis to name a few of the recent ones. So while some of the trash talking is “fake” not all of it is. Just cuz dudes high five eachother and or embrase eachother after the fight doesn’t mean all the **** they said before the fight was all fake.
I definitely agree that fighters showing respect to one another after a fight does not necessarily indicate that the trash talk was just for hype. I know from my own personal experience that a lot of times if there is beef between you and someone else, and you fight it out, that you will come away with a lot more respect for one another.
Justin I agree. Its more of an “f u” to the fans than the double finger from Brock. Its like they’re saying “haha we just fooled you, we don’t feel that way”. The soonser thing I don’t understand, but a fighter doesn’t have to like the fans, or treat them with respect. Why would Brock like the fans when 80% diss him? Like I said, the sponsor thing was retarded, but I like the reaction he gave and received from the fans. The reason I like it? Because of this right now, were talking about it, and the papers are talking about it, its good publicity, even if its bad, its good. Watch the press releases st his next fight. I love it, we are in such a special time right now, 5 years from now, we are gonna look back at this time and realize, stuff like this doesn’t come around very often, and we should be happy that our sport is causing a buzz.
I LOVED BROCK SINCE WWE AND I STILL DO, you all talk about it’ll be better when he gets ko’d but he wont this is lesnars time and no one will talk it away from him
but i dont like the bud light part but everything else i loved it
Brock Lesnar is not nearly as stupid as people want him to be. He is just using what he has learned about crowd psychology in the WWE to put people in the seats. He has to do that to get big fights because he had/has no credibility in MMA yet
I have to agree somewhat with you. I even said that while watching the event, he’s improv-ing the role of “heel”. He knows even if people hate him they will still pay to see him hoping he gets KO’d and either way that still makes him a large draw.
I stand by spliting the division. Other wise why don’t we put BJ penn against Anderson Sliva, or Rampage against GSP. If the talent is not in the higher division let Brock cut weight. The Weight advantage is to much to handle. Otherwise you will see all the heavy weight talent siting in the 220 to 230 range moving down to 205. Have you ever rolled with a guy who is 30 to 40 pounds heavier, and is at your skill level, it can be tricky.
And (bigchris2328), when it I say that he is using HGH it comes from experience not ignorance; from watching numerous people using and not using. The human body only has the potential to grow only so much with diet and exercise, then you must use syntheitic growth.
So… what you’re saying is, Julius Peppers who is 6′7″ 283 and every bit as cut and athletic as Brock Lesnar must be using HGH, because the human body can only grow so much with diet and exercise? Same for Mario Williams? Same for Brandon Jacobs? Same for Shane Carwin? Same for Osi Umenyiora? Come on dude, there are a lot of big guys guys that are athletes that don’t use drugs.
Honestly, there will always be guys like Brock and Tito and Nick Diaz and Shamrock and all those guys, the bottom line is that whether we like it or not these guys sell tickest and some people find them entertaining which puts a smile on the faces of the guys in charge. More people watching means more money in the bank and that’s what matters is the money. But Like some of you have already pointed out, Brock is no different than lots of other guys who do and say dumb $hit that makes the sport look less professional and make the fighter’s look like morons. Not everyone is like GSP, not everyone is as classy as GSP nor as professional so we just have to deal with it and wait till someone like Shane Carwin puts Brock to sleep. Oh oh….., but nobody talks about Frank Mir’s $hit talking, why don’t people criticize him?
I don’t blame Lesnar for bashing Bud Light either, they have been stingy with their sponsorships since they sold out to Beck’s. American king of beers my a$$, try german rice-beer; Budweiser is a sad excuse for a beer! Plus he apologized afterward anyways, give him a break. You try training your face off for months on end for a pompous douche who is publicly challenging your legitimacy as a fighter and as a person and see if it doesn’t get you a little heated in the cage. It’s just raw human emotion. Accept it people!
First off, many thanks to carls and bigchris2328 for even mentioning my stuff on a thread topic by Eric Shapiro. Very flattering, even though for marvelknight4 its more about the $hits and giggles
Eric Shapiro’s talented for sure, and a pleasure to read, regardless of whether or not I agree with his “ignore him and he’ll eventually go away” position on Brock Lesnar. He also has my utmost respect.
Eric states his position with a lot more writing talent then I ever could, and I honestly hope he’s right on this Lesnar thing, even though I somehow doubt it.
Traditionally success breeds success in most competative undertakings, and if MMA fighters see Lesnar making [reportedly] millions from our sport while practicing such blatant disrespect and disregard for the sport, its fans, and its participants, I have legitimate concerns that his attitude towards the sport might spread like a virus thru the ranks of the UFC, and beyond.
Yes, there have been other “bad boys” in the UFC, and MMA, but none as proud of it, and successful in the cage, as Lesnar, in so short a period of time, and without any discernable skill exhibited or “dues paid”. AND with the seeming sanction of the promoter, which in Lesnar’s case is Dana White.
Between Lesnar’s UFC fast-tracking and embarrassingly large paychecks, it’s hard for another more traditionally-inclined MMA fighter to keep paying his dues, and doing things the right way, and holding onto the core values of skill and respect for oneself and one’s opponent, when there is such a glaring exmaple of how Dana White is willing to reward someone so lavishly for doing something the wrong way.
Does anyone really not think we’re going to see more and more Lesnar-mania in the ranks of the UFC moving forward from 100? Steve Cantwell’s comments after breaking his opponent’s arm were just a precursor of things to come, and this was well before Lesnar’s latest incident. Luiz Cane, a relative nobody at this stage of his career, somehow calls out Rich Franklin, an opponent he’s at least 3 solid wins away from being ready to fight in terms of career path. Where does he get the idea that that’s OK? It would be like my 24 year old cousin calling out Lyoto Machida because he’s 4-0 in amateur MMA LHW bouts.
Disrespect is already in the wind and the UFC “water supply”, thanks in large part to Brock Lesnar, and Dana White’s silent consent of his misbehavior, well before UFC 100, or are we supposed to forget Lesnar’s other behavioral “missteps”?
It’s bad enough when a true MMA fighter like BJ Penn acts out, but trust me, this is only the beginning.
Watch and see, and hope that I’m way off base on this thing. I know I do.
The message Dana White is putting out there with his handling, or maybe mis-handling, of the UFC HW champion is “f*ck the sport, f*ck your opponents, f*ck interviews and pressers, f*ck the fans if they don’t kiss your @$$ and wear your walkout gear, just make me some money and everything is fair game”.
How can a message like that POSSIBLY help make MMA the biggest sport in the world, which White has said repeatedly is his ultimate [no pun intended] goal?
Also, MMA and the UFC are now mainstream, so far fewer people were watching to see Tito’s antics back in the day than there are now. Imagine being a representative of the MMA movement in the State of New York and having to explain to the Assembly Brock Lesnar’s words and actions?
Although in the interests of fairness to Lesnar and my committment to the sport, I found myself yesterday in the odd position of somewhat defending Lesnar from what I thought were unfounded attacks.
The first was on another thread when someone claimed that Lesnar was somehow “afraid” to mix it up with Mir, which is why he smothered him and was so timid in Frank’s semi-guard.
I did my best to explain to that person that Lesnar is many things, good and bad, but afraid of Frank Mir is not one of them.
Was Lesnar concerned about getting hooked and submitted Saturday night?
Absolutely.
Was Lesnar “afraid”?
Absolutely not.
My second defense of Lesnar came late last night, and on the subject of Lesnar’s “inhuman” size and strength. A person posted that Lesnar “must” be using PED’s [or something to that effect] to get to be the size he is.
Again I posted that while I certainly have no love for Lesnar, and greatly fear what his success means to our sport, to the best of my knowledge Brock Lesnar has never tested positive for any sort of PED.
In the same way that Lesnar is a disrespectful, petulent individual, he’s also just a really big guy. Its in his DNA. I believe Justin later posted that yes, Lesnar for all intents and purposes has a clean record when it comes to PEDs, and his altered physique from his pro wrestling days is a natural adjustment to his training regimen.
I’ve said my peace on Lesnar, repeatedly and passionately, and have essentially had my opinion overwritten, albeit benevolently and politely, by those with far, far more MMA journalistic credibility and writing talent than myself, first and foremost amongst them Eric Shapiro.
After all, who am I to disagree with someone of his ability and MMA knowledge? Who am I to disagree with individuals who have far more time in here at mmafrenzy than I do?
I’m just a guy who loves the sport and is willing to do what it takes to make sure it reaches its full potential.
Nothing more, nothing less.
And finally, jazzkok, I noticed your comment about “Brock haters being honest”. I’m not sure if that refers to me or not, but if it does I don’t think I could be more honest about the reasons I have issues with Lesnar. I’ve certainly posted them often enough in great detail, and have taken enough flak from some of the frenzied in return. Apologies if my posts didn’t come across as honest, and my sincere thanks to those of you who did see this issue as I did and offered posts of support and agreement.
bigchris2328, carls – to address your comments, I’m not “pi$$ed” that Eric Shapiro and the majority of the frenzied don’t see the Lesnar issue my way.
I am disappointed, and a little disturbed, but also hopeful that maybe I am overreacting needlessly, and the Lesnar defenders and apologists out there are right that I’m making more out of this then is necessary. I want to be wrong on this. I really do. I’d be happy to stand corrected if 6 months or a year from now Lesnar really is just the exception to the rule, and both morale and morality [as it relates to the sport] don’t suffer in the UFC ranks.
Because if I’m not wrong, the alternative is really depressing to consider as it relates to the growth and continued development of our sport…
jcohl, dude, i didn’t mean anything negative at all man. My apologies if i offended you dude, i am a fan of your posts and i felt that carls only said you would get pissed because you have let it be known many times that you are not a Lesnar supporter soo i took it as a friendly joke. So again dude, i’m not the kind of guy to start off topic crap so my apologies dude.
No offense taken, mk4, its all good.
I just didnt want to come off as insincere about my love for the sport is all…
Sorry boys. il try and keep the sarcasm on moderation.
JCOHL,
Just to clarify, my comments weren’t targeted @ you. Like you said, you’ve been pretty honest about lesnar and what you think of him and i appreciate that. I was trying to understand where all this talk about respect or lack of it came from. Lesnar isn’t the only “bad apple” in the ufc or mma period. THanks for responding to my question yesterday, i was really curious as to why you felt the way you did about brock and your response was a good one. I actually agreed with a lot.
Being an mma fan, i think it’s the fans that make the sport and who bring in the real $. I’m sure the way fighters behave or dont behave definately has an impact on the respect this sport earns from outside spectators but i don’t think it’s as much as people think atleast imo. Let’s not forget that not too long ago everyone thought of this as “human cockfighting”. Now, it’s on freakn espn dude! And that’s in large due to the following of not only the ufc but mma in general.
Thanks, jazzkok. I really try to be honest and sincere when I post because I like this site and its crew and love this sport.
And I agree that Lesnar is most certainly not the only bad apple in the UFC/MMA bunch, but unfortunately right now he’s the most obvious, and thus the most obvious target for my posts.
I’m new here, but just wait until BJ Penn’s next outburst or act of poor sportsmanship.
My reaction to that is going to make my Brock posts look like UFC fanmail.
GreaseGate my a$$…
i’ll clean it up cuz i think it got edited…..Brock is only good to bring in WWE fans, Brock sucks for UFC fans that don’t want their sport to be associated with WWE.
Its about time I came across an article that wasn’t consumed by the drama.
People need to jump off the fictional hate train that was created for Lesnar due to his WWE days.
So what if the fights were pre-determined? He still managed to pick up (on his shoulders) some of the biggest men in the world.
So what if he creates drama? He still proved everyone wrong after the crap was thrown at him; its only logical he’d fling the crap back.
Accept the fact that this guy is destroying all these people that claim he’s as fake as WWE and realize that until Fedor comes along to knock him off his high horse, you’ll have to accept getting flipped off by a 360+ lbs ‘vanilla gorilla’.
Good job, Robert.
Your Brock Lesnar decoder ring and DeathClutch t-shirt are in the mail…
Decoder ring!!!! Now thats funny $hit. Priceless man priceless.
“360+lbs”, helll of a cut to 265
Ya I herd he gives blood, shaves his toes, and sucks it in when trying to make the weight……….I thought he was 380 not 360.
Personally I don’t think Lesnar is 380 with his wife on his back, but I’m sure Justipedia has his actual weight.
From what I’ve read, his walkaround is close to 290, training weight 275-280, and then he jumps in his plastics and does his wring-out for the weigh-in.
By fight time he’s probably back to around 280, or close to it. Does that sound about right to everyone?
Now you’ll have to excuse me, I have to get back to “accepting that I was flipped off by a 360+ pound vanilla gorilla”…
All I know is lesnar vs Josh Barnett if it happens will be awesome! And Josh has all the tools to beat him. Then, Brock can fued with him, and Josh will suddenly be the most recognizable face in mma. Josh Barnett will beat Brock, right after he dethrones fedor!
i’d rather see fedor vs brock
Seeing as how Barnett still has to get by that Fedor guy I wouldn’t bang the war drums just yet. Though I think it’d be like watching Barnett fight himself when he was just getting into MMA.
@ Eric- Great read.
For all the talk about excessive showmanship and martial arts ideals I think I’m just going to say this as blunt as possible… technically competing using martial arts disciplines to inflict damage on someone for personal gain is in direct conflict with the core of most martial arts disciplines and also this is a business where hype equals money.
Whether you like it or not it’s true. If this was just a competition we wouldn’t be talking about it most likely. It’s entertainment as well as a sport. Why do you think when you watch football there are 50 stories before each week about how a player went through a personal tragedy and is still playing? It’s because it generates interest beyond the actual competition. How many people can tell me with out looking it up who won the last heavyweight Freestyle wrestling US championship? Very few people can, it got an afternoon run on espn 2 and that was it. It’s just not as entertaining to most people as the spectacle that is the UFC or most other modern sports.
The very definition of sport is an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for ENTERTAINMENT. Which brings me back to this… this is entertainment, just because you do not agree with it or you love it does not make it any less entertaining because obviously if it did you would not be reading this post right now.
ME personally I could also care less if he hurt Frankie’s feelings or went off on bud light, but when you flip off fans is where I have a problem….
All the Brockites here claim Lesnar feelings were hurt so thats why he did what he did and said.
If I recall he talked a little trash himself and called Mir’s belt fake soooo why get mad cause frank talked more smack then you????
True antics and distain for a fighter does draw attention and ratings but as Jchol put it in his short NOVEL it opens the door to other antic’s to follow. I was debating the whole BJ penns antics with other posters when Rashad was said not to be a good ambassador for the sport and too cocky etc….
I actually put money on Brock and I still am smiling but I just dont Like giving the F-U to the fans. Soooo what they boo YOU are a professional, Do that in the NBA and see if you dont get suspended or fined a couple grand.
I give the guy credit and actually repect his skill even more so now but Flipping off fans man, really that’s what you want your kids to see and how you want them to behave like when they become Champions???? I doubt it….
But he was soo sorry and gave a masterful apology speech on how he’s a competitor who hates to lose and his uncle use to sneak into his room and get on top smelling like bud light of him so hey i understand him and will beat more money on him when he faces Carwin and Fedor!!!
“Short novel”…
Funny stuff, OT1
The message Dana White is putting out there with his handling, or maybe mis-handling, of the UFC HW champion is “f*ck the sport, f*ck your opponents, f*ck interviews and pressers, f*ck the fans if they don’t kiss your @$$ and wear your walkout gear, just make me some money and everything is fair game”.
^^^ i seriously thought dana was typing that. good job jcohl you fooled me. and as far as the pissed thing about the article, i meant you would be mad because there is another brock piece being written. back to bruce wayne/batman. dude some guys are just more blessed in genetics then you or me or anyone. not everyone that is 6′2 or taller and in shape use PED’s. its called watching what you eat and busting your butt in the weightroom. im 5′10 and 210lbs, and can hang with college football players[some are pros now, i knew them from high school and college] in their core lifts of bench, incline, squat, deadlift, and i actually lift more than most of them. does that mean i use PED’s? no i just work hard and push myself to lift more weight. recognize the dedication guys put forth instead of hating kid.
bigchris2328, its all good, and your picking up of me “channeling” Dana White was much appreciated.
I really try to keep my posts factual and relatively light on the profanity, but when you’re quasi-quoting or paraphrasing Dana White, its impossible not to do so without carpet f-bombing the thread…
I’m not a fan of the Middle finger(s) to the fans, that is some bull imo, He needs to act like he has been there before… He will be champ for awhile and that is ok, but there was no reason to flip off the fans.. What he did after the fight by getting in Mir’s face well their fight was personal on all levels and got heated after the fight, that is understandable imo but the fingers to the fans not so much…
Nate Diaz was more of a Fuuck it moment and not directed to the fans, more of hey look what i pulled off type thing… Brock literally flipped of the fans and said F~U so kinda different I believe..
O well so be it, is Lesnar bad for the sport? Well out of all the greatness that happend @ UFC 101, the only thing to hit my local paper was the Lesnar story, which I found rather interesting
Eric nice write up my friend, hit me up
i just wish Hacksaw Jim Duggan woudl come out and hit Brock in the back with the 2×4…Hooooooo-ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
great article.
I totally disagree. Now at heavyweight all Brock has done for the sport is proven that in that particular weight class cutting weight is now the best strategy in town. You expect him to be an anomaly.. I think that is pretty near sighted. With the HW division left as is in the next five years I think we will see more and more fighters cutting weight to make HW, just like any other division, effectively displacing the fighters that are too far from LHW to make the cut and too small to make up the weight so they can cut and compete in what will inevitably be a division of super giants.
As the sport gets more popular if you are a big man you can look at fighting at HW if you are able to cut weight to do so as arguably the easiest, least skilled way, to get into top level MMA and I don’t think that is in any way a good thing for the sport.. neither is having adrenaline fueled semi-handicaps overshadowing your real ambassadors like ASilva and GSP.
If you want MMA to be considered in the main stream as a bunch of retarded thugs out busting heads and screaming about it then Brock is great for the sport.. if you don’t well.. then he isn’t.
I think most people are very upset with Brock because he undermines the sports integrity almost every time he opens his mouth. It might be entertaining but it has a cost and that cost is undeniable.
Apparently the author does not recognize 18 years as an amatuer wrestler as any form of a martial art. Too bad.