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	<title>Comments on: TUF 10: Heavyweights Cast Officially Announced</title>
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		<title>By: dbiz</title>
		<link>http://mmafrenzy.com/10907/tuf-10-heavyweights-cast-officially-announced/#comment-102147</link>
		<dc:creator>dbiz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 05:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mmafrenzy.com/?p=10907#comment-102147</guid>
		<description>Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: jcohl</title>
		<link>http://mmafrenzy.com/10907/tuf-10-heavyweights-cast-officially-announced/#comment-102074</link>
		<dc:creator>jcohl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 23:36:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mmafrenzy.com/?p=10907#comment-102074</guid>
		<description>OnlyTrue1, Let me start by saying thanks for referring to my post as &quot;brilliant&quot;. I try to be as factual as I can, without being to partisan in support of any one particular fighter. If anything, I try to be an avid advocate for the sport as a whole, which is why at times I hammer the UFC as often as I praise them, Dana White in particular.
Also, I don&#039;t consider it &quot;raining on my post&quot; if you take issue with something I&#039;ve written. IMO all points of view, regardless of how on-or off-point they are in comparison to my own, are equally valid, especially within the MMA fan community.

As to your specific question/s:
First off, yes, with the absorbtion of PRIDE into the UFC it currently seems the only organization with the resources and market penetration to produce a true widely recognized MMA superstar is the UFC. While I do think that the IFL did a good job, as does Strikeforce, neither organization came close to having the ability to create a &quot;recognized superstar&quot;, by which I mean someone who stands out in the ranks, and can be identified by a large number of people, both hardcore and casual MMA fans.
Also, superstar as currently defined in 21st century MMA is a fighter that appears on the main card, in a contenders match, or in the main event, possibly a championship fight. To date Kimbo SLice hasn&#039;t shown the skills to be a prelim fighter, and has been manipulated by a greedy promoter, and in the process placed in a lot of danger.
A legitimate well-rounded MMA fighter would take Slice down, hook him and submit him in less time than it takes to write and read about it. If the ref isn&#039;t quick or attentive, Slice could be seriously harmed, and even though I don&#039;t want to see him in the sport I DEFINITELY don&#039;t want to see him hurt by someone looking to make a name for themselves at some youtube sensation&#039;s expense.

Secondarily, I would have to somewhat reluctantly respond again that yes, with the downfall of PRIDE and the IFL, the limited reach of Strikeforce, Affliction, Bodog, King of the Cage, etc. basically prevents a MMA fighter, regardless of his in-cage success, from becoming a &quot;superstar&quot;.
Remember, we&#039;re talking about superstardom here, and not just particiation in the sport. I believe the term ram4750 originally used was &quot;recognized MMA superstar&quot;. Think for a second what that means. Chuck Liddell is a recognized MMA superstar, as is Rampage Jackson, Randy Couture, GSP, and on and on. Can you or anyone, regardless of how much they like and support Kimbo Slice, claim that the man is on or anywhere near there level either in terms of recognition factor or MMA achievement?

What we should be doing is recognizing Kimbo Slice for what he is, and thats a man trying to become an MMA fighter. In order to be an MMA fighter you need to have a certain cross-skill set, otherwise you&#039;re just some local toughguy masquerading as a mixed martial artist, and exchanging beatings in a boxing ring out on some Indian reservation.
Personally I think Kimbo made a good first step by training with Bas Rutten. A good second step was signing to fight in EliteXC. A good third step is appearing on TUF as a contestant. He&#039;s making his way, and trying his best with the small skill-set he currently possesses.

But lets not blow things out of proportion because a million people have clicked onto youtube to see him bum fight, or tuned in to CBS to see him get KTFO&#039;ed in 15 seconds by a LHW named Seth Petruzelli. 
Yes, he did beat aging alcoholic Tank Abbott, yes, he beat a former steriod-abusing bodybuilder and debt collector named James Thompson, and yes he did &quot;defeat&quot; a biker brawler named Bo Cantrell who if memory serves didn&#039;t bother to actually fight during his scheduled bout with Kimbo. Cantrell took his paycheck and about a dozen shots from Kimbo and called it a day. That&#039;s not what I call an MMA fight, thats what they used to call a dive back in the heyday of boxing, and what we should all call a travesty and crime against the sport.

And while it&#039;s nice and optomistic in that 21st century feel-good blameless sort of way to say, &quot;its not where you&#039;re from it&#039;s where you&#039;re going&quot;, which is a cool sentiment, in MMA it&#039;s contrary to the requirements of the sport, wherein you need to be more than some NHB toughman or bum fight champion.
Kimbo Slice has been PAID as an MMA fighter, but has yet to perform as one. TUF is going to give him that chance, and I&#039;ll reserve final judgement on Slice after seeing how he handles himself in the Ocatgon, and with an opponent with a well-rounded skill-set, something I&#039;m skeptical most of them men in this field of reality show contestants possesses, but we&#039;ll see.

As previously stated, I suggest everyone let TUF do what it was designed to do before posting either against or in favor of Kimbo Slice.
OnlyTrue1, I hope that answers your question/s...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OnlyTrue1, Let me start by saying thanks for referring to my post as &#8220;brilliant&#8221;. I try to be as factual as I can, without being to partisan in support of any one particular fighter. If anything, I try to be an avid advocate for the sport as a whole, which is why at times I hammer the UFC as often as I praise them, Dana White in particular.<br />
Also, I don&#8217;t consider it &#8220;raining on my post&#8221; if you take issue with something I&#8217;ve written. IMO all points of view, regardless of how on-or off-point they are in comparison to my own, are equally valid, especially within the MMA fan community.</p>
<p>As to your specific question/s:<br />
First off, yes, with the absorbtion of PRIDE into the UFC it currently seems the only organization with the resources and market penetration to produce a true widely recognized MMA superstar is the UFC. While I do think that the IFL did a good job, as does Strikeforce, neither organization came close to having the ability to create a &#8220;recognized superstar&#8221;, by which I mean someone who stands out in the ranks, and can be identified by a large number of people, both hardcore and casual MMA fans.<br />
Also, superstar as currently defined in 21st century MMA is a fighter that appears on the main card, in a contenders match, or in the main event, possibly a championship fight. To date Kimbo SLice hasn&#8217;t shown the skills to be a prelim fighter, and has been manipulated by a greedy promoter, and in the process placed in a lot of danger.<br />
A legitimate well-rounded MMA fighter would take Slice down, hook him and submit him in less time than it takes to write and read about it. If the ref isn&#8217;t quick or attentive, Slice could be seriously harmed, and even though I don&#8217;t want to see him in the sport I DEFINITELY don&#8217;t want to see him hurt by someone looking to make a name for themselves at some youtube sensation&#8217;s expense.</p>
<p>Secondarily, I would have to somewhat reluctantly respond again that yes, with the downfall of PRIDE and the IFL, the limited reach of Strikeforce, Affliction, Bodog, King of the Cage, etc. basically prevents a MMA fighter, regardless of his in-cage success, from becoming a &#8220;superstar&#8221;.<br />
Remember, we&#8217;re talking about superstardom here, and not just particiation in the sport. I believe the term ram4750 originally used was &#8220;recognized MMA superstar&#8221;. Think for a second what that means. Chuck Liddell is a recognized MMA superstar, as is Rampage Jackson, Randy Couture, GSP, and on and on. Can you or anyone, regardless of how much they like and support Kimbo Slice, claim that the man is on or anywhere near there level either in terms of recognition factor or MMA achievement?</p>
<p>What we should be doing is recognizing Kimbo Slice for what he is, and thats a man trying to become an MMA fighter. In order to be an MMA fighter you need to have a certain cross-skill set, otherwise you&#8217;re just some local toughguy masquerading as a mixed martial artist, and exchanging beatings in a boxing ring out on some Indian reservation.<br />
Personally I think Kimbo made a good first step by training with Bas Rutten. A good second step was signing to fight in EliteXC. A good third step is appearing on TUF as a contestant. He&#8217;s making his way, and trying his best with the small skill-set he currently possesses.</p>
<p>But lets not blow things out of proportion because a million people have clicked onto youtube to see him bum fight, or tuned in to CBS to see him get KTFO&#8217;ed in 15 seconds by a LHW named Seth Petruzelli.<br />
Yes, he did beat aging alcoholic Tank Abbott, yes, he beat a former steriod-abusing bodybuilder and debt collector named James Thompson, and yes he did &#8220;defeat&#8221; a biker brawler named Bo Cantrell who if memory serves didn&#8217;t bother to actually fight during his scheduled bout with Kimbo. Cantrell took his paycheck and about a dozen shots from Kimbo and called it a day. That&#8217;s not what I call an MMA fight, thats what they used to call a dive back in the heyday of boxing, and what we should all call a travesty and crime against the sport.</p>
<p>And while it&#8217;s nice and optomistic in that 21st century feel-good blameless sort of way to say, &#8220;its not where you&#8217;re from it&#8217;s where you&#8217;re going&#8221;, which is a cool sentiment, in MMA it&#8217;s contrary to the requirements of the sport, wherein you need to be more than some NHB toughman or bum fight champion.<br />
Kimbo Slice has been PAID as an MMA fighter, but has yet to perform as one. TUF is going to give him that chance, and I&#8217;ll reserve final judgement on Slice after seeing how he handles himself in the Ocatgon, and with an opponent with a well-rounded skill-set, something I&#8217;m skeptical most of them men in this field of reality show contestants possesses, but we&#8217;ll see.</p>
<p>As previously stated, I suggest everyone let TUF do what it was designed to do before posting either against or in favor of Kimbo Slice.<br />
OnlyTrue1, I hope that answers your question/s&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: dbiz</title>
		<link>http://mmafrenzy.com/10907/tuf-10-heavyweights-cast-officially-announced/#comment-102073</link>
		<dc:creator>dbiz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 23:30:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mmafrenzy.com/?p=10907#comment-102073</guid>
		<description>re: the developmental stage... That&#039;s exactly what TUF is for.  

The point of my initial comment was tht playing football doesn&#039;t PRECLUDE one from pursuing MMA.  Sure, many lineman train wrestling, but more and more, you&#039;re getting skill position players who train MMA/grappling also (see Matt Leinart as one example).

Remember: Roy Nelson is the exception for TUF, not the norm.  TUF is to find skilled unknowns and give them a crack at the UFC.  If it ever reaches the point where you need double digit wins on other orgs, I will stop watching it because that goes well beyond the premise.

These FORMER NFL athletes, most of whom have been out of the NFL for ~5 years and presumably have been training in MMA/grappling/muay thai or similar, are early in their careers, just as they should be.

My point, more simply, was that you call this cast bad for MMA.  You can&#039;t know this since (as you yourself said) you haven&#039;t even bothered to look into their backgrounds.  You&#039;re making assumptions and they very well may be wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: the developmental stage&#8230; That&#8217;s exactly what TUF is for.  </p>
<p>The point of my initial comment was tht playing football doesn&#8217;t PRECLUDE one from pursuing MMA.  Sure, many lineman train wrestling, but more and more, you&#8217;re getting skill position players who train MMA/grappling also (see Matt Leinart as one example).</p>
<p>Remember: Roy Nelson is the exception for TUF, not the norm.  TUF is to find skilled unknowns and give them a crack at the UFC.  If it ever reaches the point where you need double digit wins on other orgs, I will stop watching it because that goes well beyond the premise.</p>
<p>These FORMER NFL athletes, most of whom have been out of the NFL for ~5 years and presumably have been training in MMA/grappling/muay thai or similar, are early in their careers, just as they should be.</p>
<p>My point, more simply, was that you call this cast bad for MMA.  You can&#8217;t know this since (as you yourself said) you haven&#8217;t even bothered to look into their backgrounds.  You&#8217;re making assumptions and they very well may be wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: petterson</title>
		<link>http://mmafrenzy.com/10907/tuf-10-heavyweights-cast-officially-announced/#comment-102058</link>
		<dc:creator>petterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 21:15:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mmafrenzy.com/?p=10907#comment-102058</guid>
		<description>he was on tuf 3 and did really bad</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>he was on tuf 3 and did really bad</p>
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		<title>By: Vinz_Clortho</title>
		<link>http://mmafrenzy.com/10907/tuf-10-heavyweights-cast-officially-announced/#comment-102038</link>
		<dc:creator>Vinz_Clortho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 19:20:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mmafrenzy.com/?p=10907#comment-102038</guid>
		<description>These guys are not &quot;MMA newbs&quot; everyone on the cast this year has at least one if not more MMA fights.. many have more MMA fights to their credit (yes even some of the footballers) then Brock had when he fought for the championship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These guys are not &#8220;MMA newbs&#8221; everyone on the cast this year has at least one if not more MMA fights.. many have more MMA fights to their credit (yes even some of the footballers) then Brock had when he fought for the championship.</p>
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		<title>By: OnlyTrue1</title>
		<link>http://mmafrenzy.com/10907/tuf-10-heavyweights-cast-officially-announced/#comment-102037</link>
		<dc:creator>OnlyTrue1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 18:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mmafrenzy.com/?p=10907#comment-102037</guid>
		<description>Jchol so is the ufc the only place where you can become a recognised mma star??

Or is it your not considered a true mma star unless being in the ufc or tuff?? 

IMO it doesn&#039;t matter he fought guys on Youtube, and got famous and it paid off,{ i dont condon it but hey it worked for him} it not where your from but where your going. Dude was moving along with his mma standing and trying to do it right with training with Bas Rutten and competeing in a legal organized arena.

My point is this Kimbo guy did train correctly and fight in a legal and organized mma organization. And millions tunned in.. So what if he got beat in one of his mma fights in 12 -14 seconds so did Timmmmehhhh.. It is not his fault that mma organization made him the main attraction.

No he doesn&#039;t have bjj or good wrestleing skills but that are other guys in the ufc or who have fought in the ufc that where comparable to Kimbo imo.  Do you remember TANK ABBOTT or more recently Sokoudjou these guys had no submission skills nor decent wrestleing but they are considered legit mma fighters JUST NOT ALL THAT SKILLED in bjj but they are still mma fighters..  

Example football players some are awesome some are sub par at best but they are still football players whether they play in the nfl or ifl... Or come from playing streetball or straight outta highschool.
Not to rain on the brilliant post you wrote up but just a Different oppinon is all. 
Peace!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jchol so is the ufc the only place where you can become a recognised mma star??</p>
<p>Or is it your not considered a true mma star unless being in the ufc or tuff?? </p>
<p>IMO it doesn&#8217;t matter he fought guys on Youtube, and got famous and it paid off,{ i dont condon it but hey it worked for him} it not where your from but where your going. Dude was moving along with his mma standing and trying to do it right with training with Bas Rutten and competeing in a legal organized arena.</p>
<p>My point is this Kimbo guy did train correctly and fight in a legal and organized mma organization. And millions tunned in.. So what if he got beat in one of his mma fights in 12 -14 seconds so did Timmmmehhhh.. It is not his fault that mma organization made him the main attraction.</p>
<p>No he doesn&#8217;t have bjj or good wrestleing skills but that are other guys in the ufc or who have fought in the ufc that where comparable to Kimbo imo.  Do you remember TANK ABBOTT or more recently Sokoudjou these guys had no submission skills nor decent wrestleing but they are considered legit mma fighters JUST NOT ALL THAT SKILLED in bjj but they are still mma fighters..  </p>
<p>Example football players some are awesome some are sub par at best but they are still football players whether they play in the nfl or ifl&#8230; Or come from playing streetball or straight outta highschool.<br />
Not to rain on the brilliant post you wrote up but just a Different oppinon is all.<br />
Peace!!!</p>
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		<title>By: jcohl</title>
		<link>http://mmafrenzy.com/10907/tuf-10-heavyweights-cast-officially-announced/#comment-102030</link>
		<dc:creator>jcohl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 17:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mmafrenzy.com/?p=10907#comment-102030</guid>
		<description>I would like to post a correction/retraction to something I said in the above post.
Reagrdless of my personal opinions, MMA fighters participating on TUF, or anywhere else for that matter, shouldn&#039;t be referred to as &quot;sucking&quot; or &quot;sucks&quot;.
A statement like that is just rude, probably flat out wrong, and tells more about the person who wrote it that the subject of said statement.

If I could I would replace the offending and unintelligent comment with something more appropriate and accurate, along the lines of, &quot;I assume that the TUF participants are in the developmental stage of their MMA careers, not the more polished stage that signed UFC talent usually possesses&quot;, or something of that nature.

I apologize for my earlier post, and ask that if anyone reads it please disregard it and not get the impression that I&#039;m &quot;that sort&quot; of MMA fan.
Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to post a correction/retraction to something I said in the above post.<br />
Reagrdless of my personal opinions, MMA fighters participating on TUF, or anywhere else for that matter, shouldn&#8217;t be referred to as &#8220;sucking&#8221; or &#8220;sucks&#8221;.<br />
A statement like that is just rude, probably flat out wrong, and tells more about the person who wrote it that the subject of said statement.</p>
<p>If I could I would replace the offending and unintelligent comment with something more appropriate and accurate, along the lines of, &#8220;I assume that the TUF participants are in the developmental stage of their MMA careers, not the more polished stage that signed UFC talent usually possesses&#8221;, or something of that nature.</p>
<p>I apologize for my earlier post, and ask that if anyone reads it please disregard it and not get the impression that I&#8217;m &#8220;that sort&#8221; of MMA fan.<br />
Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: White_Boy</title>
		<link>http://mmafrenzy.com/10907/tuf-10-heavyweights-cast-officially-announced/#comment-102013</link>
		<dc:creator>White_Boy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mmafrenzy.com/?p=10907#comment-102013</guid>
		<description>Hopefully this year will focus on the training aspect of the time in the house. This season seems to be more grown men, instead of talented young punks. Because of that, maybe there won&#039;t be the teenager temper tantrems that have plagued the past few seasons. I would love to see a season where they focus a little time on each of the week&#039;s fighters and who they are/where they come from/etc., but then the rest of the show, 58 minutes of it revolves around the fight and training for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hopefully this year will focus on the training aspect of the time in the house. This season seems to be more grown men, instead of talented young punks. Because of that, maybe there won&#8217;t be the teenager temper tantrems that have plagued the past few seasons. I would love to see a season where they focus a little time on each of the week&#8217;s fighters and who they are/where they come from/etc., but then the rest of the show, 58 minutes of it revolves around the fight and training for it.</p>
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		<title>By: petterson</title>
		<link>http://mmafrenzy.com/10907/tuf-10-heavyweights-cast-officially-announced/#comment-102002</link>
		<dc:creator>petterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 13:02:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mmafrenzy.com/?p=10907#comment-102002</guid>
		<description>roy nelson looks like he&#039;s had his dinner</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>roy nelson looks like he&#8217;s had his dinner</p>
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		<title>By: Muaythai4life</title>
		<link>http://mmafrenzy.com/10907/tuf-10-heavyweights-cast-officially-announced/#comment-101995</link>
		<dc:creator>Muaythai4life</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 07:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mmafrenzy.com/?p=10907#comment-101995</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m excited to see the UFC finding quality athletes for the HW division. Wrestlers and football players both come from athletic backgrounds with a lot of fast and explosive training behind them. Striking/grappling can be learned to a degree of mastery along the way, but when you look at what the HW division has had to offer in practically every organization you see a couple stand out guys, and then a list of people for them to beat cause they can&#039;t win by forfeit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m excited to see the UFC finding quality athletes for the HW division. Wrestlers and football players both come from athletic backgrounds with a lot of fast and explosive training behind them. Striking/grappling can be learned to a degree of mastery along the way, but when you look at what the HW division has had to offer in practically every organization you see a couple stand out guys, and then a list of people for them to beat cause they can&#8217;t win by forfeit.</p>
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