Video: Dana White Talks Return of Chuck Liddell, Having “No Interest” In Vitor Belfort, and Kimbo Slice on TUF 10
Posted by Kris Karkoski on Jun 29, 2009 at 3:15 pm ET29 Comments
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Wow is Dana ever back pedaling on the whole Vitor thing. Wonder what thats all about. He probably thought to take it easy on that issue considering they havnt even signed him yet. plus they would probably only want him if he wins at Affliction 3. Is it just me or did it sound like kimbo lost on the show by the way they were wording it.
1. Liddell vs. Franklin shouldn’t happen, neither fighter has much to gain.
2. I’m excited that Huerta vs. Maynard is in the works. Whether or not Huerta fights after this Maynard,he’s still and awesome fighter and i’m a big fan so i would like to see this fight happen.
3. It would be interesting for the 85 division if Belfort does come back being that Wanderlei is on his way to 185, but i’m not holding my breath for this to happen anytime soon.
4. Even if Kimbo Slice did lose OR didn’t on TUF 10, the guy at least gave it an honest attemp and you have to admire his willingness to try, that’s a victory in itself.
liddel franklin in the fight of who cares. both these guys r nowhere near relevant to that division. huerta coming back against a tough opponent i like it. hopefully he doesnt get the AA treatment and is put on the undercard. i was neva impressed wit belfort really. dudes got some good hands ill give him that but every fight ive seen him in he gasses(granted havnt seen a belfort fight in a long time so mayb hes got it worked out). but he did say when amir asked him the possible fights for anderson back at 185 he said vitor belfort so wats with the lies? as for kimbo im guessin he was picked 1st to fight probably against the teams best guy and got subbed on the ground. ex he gets picked by rampage(which i hope he does) and rashad picks kimbo to fight the 1st fight against his best guy. that is my prediction
How is Franklin not relevant in that division? Because he lost a VERY controversial decision to Dan Henderson? Please. After he punted Matt Hamill’s liver out of Atlanta and whooped up on Wanderlei, I’d say he’s 1-2 wins away from a title shot. Not sure he would deserve a shot for beating Chuck, but if he beat Chuck and then someone with a few recent wins under their belt I’d say look for Machida-Franklin in 2010.
Henderson clearly beat Franklin so i don’t know what you mean by “VERY controversial decision”, Henderson controled most of the fight and just because Franklin got a few non important shots on Henderson in the 3rd round doesn’t mean that round 1 and 2 didn’t count. Franklin barely beat Wanderlei, that decision was more controversial than the Hendo fight because Wanderlei was pushing the pace more and landing the more effective shots. Franklin is relevant at 205, but not that relevant at the moment. A fight with Liddell would only hurt his chances at the title, besides Franklin has zero to gain from a fight with Liddell win or lose. I agree that Franklin is 2 fights away from a title shot but they have to be against top contenders not guys like Chuch or Wanderlei who are at the end of the road…AND don’t be so quick to count out Shogun because in order for Franklin-Machida 2, Machida has to get passed Shogun and possibly Rampage and i don’t like his odds.
Ya Franklin’s definately relavent at 205 If he was to beat Luis Cane then fight Shogun when hes done gettin whupped by Machida he could definately be in line for a title shot.
Id say the fight was a VERY close one, not realy that controversial. It realy just comes down to how you score the second round. If you like Richs strikes for the first half or Hendo’s takedown and control for the second. I gave it to Rich but can see why someone would give it Dan aswell. Just like the first GSP/Penn fight.
Most of the majority of MMA observers would consider Rich Franklin irrelevent to the UFC LHW division at this point because he poses no serious threat to the consensus top 5 men in that division, those being Machida, Evans, Rampage, Griffin, and probably Jardine. Those same observers are pretty much in agreement that a Franklin-Liddell match-up would really just be an attempt to cash in on the last vestiges of Liddell’s waning prestige with heightened PPV buy rates, and a nice payday for Franklin. In terms of the contendership radar in the UFC’s LHW ranks, however, Franklin-Liddell hardly registers a blip or two.
Sad to say, but beating Liddell at this point doesn’t do a whole hell of a lot for you, in terms of the promotion, as the sport has passed Liddell by, and age is catching up with him.
I say this with all due respect for the Iceman.
Personally I think that calling Franklin irrelevent is both harsh and not 100% accurate, but if you were to cull forum opinions on this you’d find the collective as of yet not fully convinced of and encouraged by Franklin’s LHW prospects. I like Rich Franklin, but unfortunately he’s sort of become a man without a division to compete in. He clearly has no place in the MW division until Anderson Silva either retires or moves permanently up to LHW, which by all reports is simply not going to happen. I hope the guy does make a strong run at the LHW belt, and wish him all the luck in the world, but I don’t see him making any headway against the division’s top fighters.
Also, I beleive that Franklin, if he catches Jardine in one of Jardine’s off cycles, could take that fight. As far as the other 4 names mentioned, Franklin would need a miracle to survive 3 or 5 rounds with any one of them at this stage.
Of course MMA is always subject to change, and the ever-turning wheel might come around to a Franklin run at the LHW title, but IMO thats not very likely in the foreseeable future…
You can also change out Shogun for Jardine and get an even worse outlook for Franklin.
Jchol,
Jardine is not top 5 in that division.
here is your top 5
1. Machida
2. Rampage
3. Evans
4. Forrest
5. Shogun
6. Thiago Silva
Youse guys need to stop tripping. Liddell vs Franklin would be totally cool. It would be a special attraction fight. Chuck is at that point though where I think he could compete with Franklin and even beat him. Franklin doesn’t really have knockout power. Chuck is at that point where he won’t win the belt again but he’ll be in special attraction matches like Randy. Im really looking forward to the fight if it happens I think it will I never thought Chuck would retire at least not yet. TUF 10 is gonna be awesome. But yeah its on tape Inside the Octagon, Dana did talk about getting Vitor to fight Anderson.
“Special Atraction Fight”? Liddell needs to retire, for REAL. He’s done, there is no arguing that, the guy is done. This is not a circus man. If Liddell fights again it’ll look desperate and quit frankly, kinda sad. If he fights Franklin and Franklin knocks him out or scores a tko….honestly just because Couture is still fighting doesn’t mean Chuck can still fight. Franklin still has enough left in his tank to make a run at the title but this is not the road to take.
I agree Marvel, and I dont think to many people on here want to see this fight either. Realy all it would be is a money fight for the UFC. Framklin should fight someone like Luis Cane. Dana sounds a little defeated to me on the Liddell topic, cause obviously he doesnt want him to fight anymore, but he knows that at the end of the day he cant stop him. Its kind of obvious that chuck wants to keep fighting cause when guys retire they atleat admit it after a fight. Chuck has always said “we will see what happens”. For him the fire still burns regardless of what we think. I for one would not be surprised if this fight happens.
liddell was always one-trick pony. he slugs in a certain style, which works well against SOME opponents, but is not enough for others.
he has NEVER developed any kind of skills.
on the other hand, i give credit to Franklin, cuz he HAS TRIED to learn some new techniques, muy-thai, some BJJ etc.
so, at beginning they were very similar, but i think that franklin has evolved, but Ice is…melting
yea franklin vs the dragon makes sense, considering the dragon ko’d franklin the first time they fought like ten years ago, and now the dragon has evolved and looks unbeatable, rich hasnt improved, got destroyed by machida’s training partner [anderson silva] twice!!!, and some here want to see a rematch??? that makes complete sense. wtf! I think dana is backtracking on the vitor thing because maybe vitor doesnt want to come back to the ufc unless he gets an immediate title shot, [which shouldnt happen have vitor fight at least one top contender] or vitor has expressed intrest in fighting for a different organization, like dream.
Thats what I was thinking cause he was realy weird about the whole Vitor topic. I think deepdown Franklin knows hed get beat down by Machida thats why he keeps saying “all i care about is putting on entertaining fights” instead of saying I want a shot at the title. But hey if he keeps winning he just might end up standing accross from the Dragon, provided he still has the belt.
I’ve said before that Rich Franklin is sort of a fighter without a division to chase the champion in. Anderson Silva essentially killed Franklin’s MW career, and Franklin’s prospects at LHW are pretty limited. I don’t see that changing anytime soon, nor have I read any compelling arguments to believe it will.
Maybe Franklin feels the best he can do at this pointin his UFC career is to sign for as many high profile fights that he can, regardless of contender implications, and content himself with the solid paydays and time in the PPV spotlight, which helps with sponsors and tshirt sales.
If the cards fall right for Franklin, he may in fact one day get a title bout, but does anyone really like his chances against Machida, or Evans, or Rampage, or Griffin, or Shogun, or even Jardine?
While it is true that Franklin didn’t COMPLETELY embarrass himself against Hendo, it was pretty clear who won that fight. Franklin did hammer Matt “The Hammer” Hamill pretty hard, but he’s way more experienced and has faced tougher competition than Hamill has, so that shouldn’t be entirely unexpected.
I think Rich Franklin is a pragmatic, common sense-sort of guy. When he looks in the mirror, he doesn’t see a fighter that can defeat someone like Machida or Shogun or Griffin, which is why he’ll likely fight Liddell in a bout that is an example of irresponsible matchmaking. If it does materialize I wish both fighters well, and hope Liddell doesn’t get seriously hurt…
i think that Rich has a chance at Machida if he watches Machida vs BJ Penn and LEARNS FROM IT.
wow that was an unexpected response. i dont think either one is relevent. chuck is gettin close to ken shamrock’n it. lets look at franklins lhw fights. franklin won against wanderlei who was clearly affected by the weight cut (which by the way that was at a catchweight so how much does it hold for there respective divisions i say if wandy won he shouldnt have fought anderson right away but probly would have and i say it doesnt move rich up much either beatin a guy whose leavin that division) and mayb shouldve won but lost a decision to hendo(just for the record didnt see the fight dont kno so i put mayb) and beat matt hamill who at the time was 4-1 and a relativly green fighter. does that warrent being relevant? i dont think so not me personally. mayb after he beats a few more people in that division like cane or t. silva then ill say hes relevant but as someone said against the top 5 i dont see him beatin any of them.
Ok so Franklin isnt a top 5 guy at 205. Granted, but hes atleast top ten. There is different ways at looking at his fights. I would like everyone who thinks that he definately lost to Hendo to go back and watch that fight. Yes he lost the first. But you have to give him the 3rd(dan didnt even land any shots)and in the second Franklin was controling the stand up and scoring until he got taken down. at that point Dan pretty much layed on him until the bell. The fight was a split decisoin for a reason. And with the Hamil fight, ya the guys fairly green but he beat bisping(we all know he did)that sais something, and Franlkin didnt just win he put the guy away. I dont ever see Rich holding a title again but truly beleive that he can hang with the top 5. Id give him the nod against Jardine and a bout with Rashad could be close. Only Rampage Machida and Forrest in my mind would handle him. I hope he gets a shot at one of the top guys someday so we can all see where he is at. Is Franklin relevant to the tilte no. But is he relevant to the division yes. Cause i said so…….;D
I think the guy that doesn’t belong in the top of the 205 mix right now is Evans. He caught Forrest when Forrest was clearly winning the fight and he ran from Chuck the whole time. I’ll give you that he has serious hands, but it wasn’t that long ago that people thought Franklin had some of the most devastating strikes in the entire UFC. Don’t put too much into Evans or Jardine as a true contender.
Um the guy who just lost the belt and only has 1L on his record, shouldn’t be a contender? Now I have my issues with Evans but he is pretty darn good if you ask me and helll he just lost the belt man.. To each their own I guess
Again with the making sense…
to clarify rashad doesnt belong in the top 5 at 205 because…? i am mixed on that issue, other than his striking power and lightning fast hand speed has he shown any other skills? has he taken down guys at will? has he used leg kicks to neutralize the opponent? not really. rashad’s technique is to circle away from his opponent do some “dancing” [head and body movement like he is ali, which he is nowhere near] and then throw his fast hands and ko the opponent. sure he has one loss, but his only good win was against forrest, chuck was on his way down at the time, and rashad’s loss was to the dragon where machida made rashad look average. does that warrant being in the top 5 in that division? unfortunately it does. after the rampage fight we will know where rashad stands.
Rashad is a bit of a hard case to judge. He has won fights via finish against Chuck and Forrest, but barely hung on to his draw against Tito and W against Bisping. In addition, he was behind in the fight in both the Chuck and Forrest fights before getting the finish, but he still got the win and that’s all that matters. He then went on to get completely embarrassed by Machida, who has a tendency to do that to everyone, but still. I definitely agree that Rashad v. Rampage should be a good fight to judge where Rashad really is as a fighter. Rampage isn’t nearly as elusive as Machida, has a better chin than Forrest and Chuck, and has more power than Forrest and Chuck, so it should be a good back and forth battle for the better fighter to come out on top of. Either that or Rashad gets KOed again.
Lord knows I am no Rashad Evans fan, as his fight style tends to make me queasy, but there is no denying that he’s got skills, is a natural counter-puncher, and sports a pretty damn good record to back-up his “top 5″ status. I also think Evans is a terrific example of the old sports adage that says “speed kills”.
I agree that after the Rampage fight we should have much better idea of Evans’ ACTUAL level in the division. I would also like to see him go again against Forrest Griffin. Evans didn’t look none too snappy against Griffin until he caught him, so I think that maybe another fight between the two is warranted somewhere down the line.
One of the things I’ve been exposed to at this forum is the mindset of looking at fighters both subjectively and objectively. While I wouldn’t be spending any scratch on a Rashad Evans t-shirt, I can appreciate his talent in the cage, even if it isn’t what I like to see when I tune in or show up.
And Timcat, I understand that Jardine might not TECHNICALLY be ranked between 1 and 5, which is sort of why I referred to him as a consensus top 5 LHW, by which I mean if you polled 100 MMA fans as to who are the top 5 UFC LHWs, I’m betting Jardine’s name pops up more than Silva’s, and possibly more than Shogun’s.
Is this accurate? Probably not, but likely true, as Jardine has had a lot more US exposure than either Silva or Shogun. Most MMA fans I’ve spoken with remember Shogun getting choked out by Griffin, and thats about it.
Also, Jardine might have some issue not receiving top 5 consideration while a man he’s beaten in the cage, Forrest Griffin, routinely does.
Of course more educated fans know the deal, but thanks for the correction nonetheless…
@jcohl,
I disagree with you a bit about Evans and his speed. I don’t think it’s really ever been apparent with his striking outside of the Liddell fight. His hands didn’t look especially fast against Machida, nor did they against Griffin or Tito (whose hands are pretty slow in the first place).
I think people jumped on the “Evans is a great striker” bandwagon after his crushing KO of Liddell, which I might add was a shot that he really, really loaded up on and caught Chuck with. I think it’s been apparent recently that Chuck’s formula ain’t what it used to be and Evans was able to take advantage of it. However, he still didn’t look that great standing IMO against Chuck until the time of the KO.
I’m not denying that Evans is a skilled fighter or a fast one, I just think that he’s really no Floyd Mayweather when it comes to the speed of his strikes.
Franklin’s last fight wasn’t even at 205. I’m not saying that he’s not going to be a threat at LHW, but I don’t think he’s quite proven it yet. He’s got one win, over Matt Hamill, and he lost a decision to Henderson (who’s always vacillated between 205 and 185 anyway) and won a tight decision over Wanderlei at 195.
Beating on Hamill doesn’t qualify you as a title contender, IMO. Neither does beating on Liddell, and given that he’s probably not going to be fighting til next Spring (if at all) means that Rich needs to move on. I personally didn’t think there was any benefit to Rich to fight Chuck at this point in his career anyway, as Liddell’s been reduced to a guy that most elite 205ers think they can/should be able to steamroll. That’s a low-reward fight for Franklin, who’s trying to establish his presence at LHW with marquee wins rather than a slow grind fighting prospects and gatekeepers.
A Franklin-Cane fight makes sense to me, as does a Franklin-Vera fight. At that point, I think he could probably get in there with someone like Jardine, Griffin or the loser of Evans-Rampage or the loser of Machida-Rua, with a win over any of them establishing him as legitimate contender.
By the way, how funny would it be if Anderson Silva decides to make 205 his new home? Rich would be bolting back to 185 in a heartbeat….
I personally think that if things dont work out for Franklin at 205 he will make one final run at 185 cause by that time according to him and his manager Anderson will be retired. At that time Marquardt, Maia or Bisping will likely have the belt.