Dana White: John Hackleman Needs Some Money
John Hackleman and Chuck Liddell
Talk about a love triangle. After getting wind of John Hackleman’s thoughts on Chuck Liddell retiring (or not retiring rather), UFC president Dana White, in typical Dana White fashion, held back little in response to the Iceman’s longtime trainer:
“Obviously, John Hackleman didn’t pay his house off yet. John Hackleman needs some money, because anybody who claims they care about Chuck Liddell even a little bit would not be making these f–king statements…How many great, talented guys do you see coming out of John Hackleman’s place? He’s no Greg Jackson. He’s no Mark DellaGrotte. He’s no American Top Team. He’s not one of the great camps. Chuck Liddell made him.”
White and Hackleman also seem to have very different ideas about what Liddell’s life after fighting would look like. According to Dana, Chuck will “be with the UFC forever” and will hopefully “do regulatory stuff with Marc Ratner.” Whereas Hackleman believes that if in fact Liddell wants to call it quits (which he still contends is unnecessary at this time) then he will spend his days teaching at Hackleman’s gym, The Pit. Hackleman also did not rule out the notion of Liddell competing for another promotion “if he has to.”
As a child of divorce whose parents had joint custody, I know all too well how out of hand things can get when two people who think they have your best interests at heart disagree so profoundly. Perhaps the war Dana mentioned previously is looming after all…
Of course it would be nice if Liddell just came forward and officially dispensed his own thoughts on his future, but it looks like that won’t happen until it absolutely has to, if at all.
The problem here is bias. Both White and Hackleman call themselves dear friends of Liddell’s, yet both have personal interests at stake. Dana White would like to protect a bona fide UFC legend from tarnishing his legacy like so many other foolish hangers-on have and continue to do. John Hackleman, as White so eloquently spouted, has no other marquis fighters in his stable to bring recognition to his gym, which is essentially his livelihood.
Maybe Hackleman truly believes that Liddell can continue his MMA career without damaging his body or his name, or maybe he’s just trying to earn an extra buck while he still can. And maybe Dana White truly believes that Liddell should retire because it’s simply too hazardous for him to compete at this point, or maybe he’s just holding that last contracted fight over Liddell’s head (a la Tito Ortiz) to make sure that Chuck cannot draw crowds outside of the Zuffa banner.
Whatever the case, I think Liddell should keep in mind that even the best of friends can become vultures when there’s money involved, especially this kind of money. Just ask Don King’s many friends.
Tags: Chuck Liddell, Dana White
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I see both sides of this, I really do. But For my own intrests I’d rather chuck stay connected with the UFC. I couldn’t really care less about hackleman or his gym. But then loyalty comes into factor with chuck. Do you stay witht he guy who trained you or the guy who made you one of the best paid dudes in MMA. As for his retirement. Common man, I know myself and many others think hes got at least one or two more HUGE KO’s left in him but its really not worth the risk of watching chuck take another punch to the face that send him back to the 3rd grade.
Hack and Chuck have been together literally forever, hell they spend holidays (proper ones not vacation in these terms, for my English friends) together and are best of friends… Was it harsh what White said ya it was but the guy has a point, doesn’t he? I too believe that Chuck could go to some bs org and be the “big name” and ko a nobody but that would start the destruction of his legacy imo..
Hack has a point of saying Chuck can still fight but man just call it a day and work for ZUFFA pull that check and live a great life, and be remembered as one of the (if not the) greatest LHW of all time.
Dana White might be Chuck’s “friend”, but i think he wants to keep Liddell with the UFC because he doesn’t want him fighting for another organization. He might still have some honest “good” in him and really want Liddell just to be safe, but we don’t know that for sure. Hackleman, i feel does want Chuck to fight again becasue he knows thats what Chuck wants, but i also feel there is something to what White said about Hackleman not being a “big name” trainer and that he needs money.
Chuck Liddell should retire,keep his job with the UFC and not get in the mix with White and Hackleman.
i agree
Liddell should just enjoy his riches, go and be with his family and friends and get away from all this bull$hit for a while.
I personaly would feel sad to see him become the next legend who fu*ks up his legacy. Saty away from Hackleman and White dude and enjoy all your success!
this is sad man, i know chuck still wants to fight but he will not be a “top” contender any more! i love chuck and would rather see him as a face of the ufc, rather then a belt holder for ?strike force? or even competing in anything else then UFC.
As much as I would like to see Chuck win another fight or two, I would like even more to not see him lose another fight or two. I think it is the right time for him to retire, either that, or put him against a can to get a KO and go out on a win. I can see both Dana and Hackleman’s sides of the argument, but like Eric said, both men have a monetary interest in their side of the argument. I think for Hackleman though, if his only marquis fighter goes out and gets KOed again, that will do him no favors in bringing more people into his gym.
good write-up. i just hope chuck does what chuck wants to do. he has earned all of his accomplishments, fame, and fortune. it so sad to see two guys claiming to be chucks best friends, with his best interests in mind arguing “Chuck wants to do this…no Chuck wants to do this,” etc.
i dont want to see chuck lose fights any more than the rest of his fans, but for Dana White or John Hackleman to be the decider is a shame. I hope Chuck does part-time training at whoevers gym, and part time promotions/commentary/etc and makes a ton of money at both. this sport wouldnt be where it is today without chuck, so he can write his own ticket and i’d support him in whatever he decides to do.
I’m no doctor, but last I checked Chuck has been knocked out what 3 times now out of 5 fights? If my memory serves me at least 2 of those times I remember seeing him ask the ref “what happened?”
Does the athletic commission consider the cumulative effect of repeated knockouts when clearing or re-clearing a fighter to fight?
Can’t say what Dana’s real motivations are but is it wrong to think there is things at risk here beyond just legacy and $$?
Dana needs a filter. But that’s nothing new. He has an absolutely valid point about Hack’s need for Chuck to keep fighting, but the way he says it is so prickish. Dana being Dana I guess.
Good point Justin, as Hack wont not have much of a recruiting program going if his only golden goose continues to keep getting lit up like a Christmas tree.
For Hack its all about making more money. For Dana its all about preventing other organizations from making money (off of Chuck). It’s all about money. money money money. Sad, kind of.
I highly doubt dana is saying chuck is retired to prevent him from going to another organization. If I remeber correctly dana got his start managing chuck and tito before the ufc took off. tito listened to other people instead of taking dana’s advice thus leading to bad blood. tito got brainwashed by other people saying dana was screwing him over and such, look where it got tito. I havent seen him fight in 1 and a half years. I seriously think that dana is trying to protect chuck here, he offered chuck a job within the ufc, is that something a guy would do if he was trying to keep someone from going to another organization? I think not. I didnt see him do that for ken shamrock, or anyone else. hackleman does need chuck to bring in guys for his gym, because he has no other marketable fighter. all hackleman is doing is trying to make money off of chuck.
when a fighter from greg jackson’s camp loses or ATT or any other top camp they analyze what their fighter needs to work on and brings in those coaches to help and teach the fighter new techniques. Hackelman hasnt. chuck needs to retire so he doesnt tarnish his legacy. he cant keep up with the killers at 205, rashad, rampage, machida, forrest, shogun, thiago silva, anderson silva, cantwell, cane, bader. any of those guys would beat chuck, 2 of them viciously ko’d him already. it would be in chuck’s best interest to retire. I would hate to see him turn into a punch-drunk fighter or become the next ali. it is very sad to see ali now considering his abilities when he was in his prime.
Very good points, but BADER??? Really? C’mon man.
I understand the loyalty chuck feels he has to keep with hackleman, but sometimes you have to realize that the person you are trying to remain loyal with doesnt have your best interests in their agenda. chuck should take what dana offered him and remain cool with hackleman, but dont follow his advice on fighting. I would have a different opinion only if chuck’s last ko losses had been competitive. rampage destroyed him, rashad is a slow starter thats why that fight took long, and shogun was loading up on that left. I saw it as did most of my friends when we were watching the fight. chuck cant see the punches coming anymore. what happens if he were to take another fight and doesnt see a headkick coming that hits him flush on the head? possible brain damage, major injury, etc. I see the argument that maybe it doesnt happen, but maybe it does. then what? people are gonna be saying dana was right and chuck shouldve been forced to retire.
i agree
Chuck doesn’t need another ko loss to start seriously considering retirement. He doesn’t have to be in the middle of this dispute. He imo should retire @ ufc 100 and stay kool with hackelman like bigchris said.
I see both sides of the story but i’ll have to go with dana on this one. I honestly don’t know wtf hackelman is thinking saying chuck should not only still fight if he wants to, but he should fight somewhere else??? Dude, you’re talking about fighting for the competition of the dude’s best friend(dana). I’m sure hackelman and dana could have alterior motives but dana too has been with the organization and publicly stated before chuck got kod that that would probably chucks last fight. Now, he’s only sticking to what he said. Hackelman on the other hand…i don’t know dude. I wouldn’t want my friend to seriously hurt himself, all he’s worked for, AND turn his back on his other close friend.
Ive competed and have been training in combat sports for a while now, and to my understanding the most important unwritten rule of fighting is “you compete as long you can potentially be the best at what you do.” If a fighter can no longer be the best or even have a remote chance of being the best, then there is absolutely no reason to put your life on the line in combat, outside of a check. Its one thing to be a guy who just loses by a decision here and there, and its a whole different monster to get KNOCKED out consecutively like Chuck has. And lets face it Chuck was never that good when it came to defending strikes. He primarily relyed on his rock solid chin and his good reflexes during his exchanges. Now that both of these traits are gone, mixed in with the fact that he has a very bad habit of keeping his hands low, he’s 40, and he’s much slower this can get real ugly for Chuck. Unless he’s broke it’s just not worth it.
What is up with Dana calling everybody broke???
Even though he does have a point about Hackleman not have a top camp and not having a other fighter and then having to take his top fighter to train some where else…..
I agree though chuck should stop fighting, He went out on his sheild and left it all in the ring no shame in that.
Still Chuck should decide on his own what he wants to do and what makes him happy, no matter the decision..
I remember this guy who was stripped of his title, sentence to jail, came back to fighting and lost to the then champion and all the talk about retirement came up. Later he KO’d the then New Champ in Africa who Ko’d the previous Champ., NOW he is Known as the greatest boxer of all time. True he fought far too long past his prime but in the end he is happy and viewed by all as the greatest and that may be what he wants and why he fought in the first place.
Not to be told you are retired without having the final say or to announce it yourself properly.
Ironically, Ali was the same exact age that Chuck is now when he took that final beating from Holmes…
Well ***** I guess it is time to hang up the gloves LOL!!!
Again though I said it since chuck started having speech difficutly and started to slur his speech something was wrong.
But when you got someone that is so passionate and love what they do so much they are willing to risk their life for it and that is all they ever did in their life!!!!!!
It aint that easy to let go..
That’s not ironic, it’s fitting. Irony is when the opposite of what is expected to happen happens. Unless Chuck on the record somewhere said “I will never go out like Ali”, then it’s not ironic. Sorry to nit pick, but let’s keep our english proper.
Ali also has Parkinson’s disease and is a shell of a human being as a direct result of all the beatings he took during his boxing career, and I’m sure the latter ones did the most damage.
QUESTION FELLA’S
WHO is the best LHW EVER??!!!!
Of course it gonna go down right now as either Chuck Liddel or Wanderlie Silva..
John Hackleman…i know he’s been Liddell’s coach for some time, but honestly dude, if he really cares about Liddell, then he should be telling Chuck to enjoy his success and spend more time with his family and friends. If Liddell fights again, especially against a contender, he’ll be in danger of dropping 3 in a row possibly by knockout.
Dana White also has his alterior motives, but so does Hackleman. Liddell should not chose sides here, he should just enjoy all his money and fame and gho out with dignity and respect that people still have for him rather than becoming like the Shamrocks or Tank Abbot.
Hackleman: dude stop trying to take advantage of your boy Chuck and tell him to hang it up. It’s the best thing to do, anything else would only tarnish his legacy.
I really think Chuck should retire, but whatever happens, both Dana and JOhn should support him as a friend first business partner second. After all, they both are Chuck’s best friends right……..
Chuck should go to Greg Jackson,or Dellagrotte, or American Top Team and learn to keep his hands up and use his wrestling for other than just standing up. If Chuck learned to do that and throw more kicks, he can move back up to being a contender. All these guys know Chucks exact game plan, because it’s the same as always, and these last few guys found a way to beat it. This is the same reason why I think Wandi has lost recently too. I think they both still have it, they just have to develop there game.
No my friend
The problem with Chuck and Wandy aint so much their form, It’s their chins…. No amount of training can fix that.
I know chuck and wandy and Big nog have stance and form issues, but not at this stag of their lives it has more to do with that button that keeps getting hit repeatedly.. Blocking or keeping you hands up wont solve that.
onlytrue1, some fighters dont know when its time to retire. they think they can still compete against the best because of their competitive desire. sometimes a friend or someone who has nothing to gain will tell them the truth. sure chuck can still fight, but I dont think he has what it takes to win against the top guys. it is time. I know it must be hard to give up the only thing he has done for the past 15-20 years, but it is a blessing in disguise. chuck will get to spend more time with his kids and wife, and he still will be a part of the organization he had a huge part in building. this is a good opportunity for him. as far as who is the best lhw of all time, I would say wandy based on the way he made his opponents look like amateurs and the savage beatings he gave them. not to take anything away from chuck, but wandy was the baddest mofo on the planet when he was in pride. there are only two fights I wanted to see wandy fight. 1. when he was in his prime against chuck, when chuck was in his prime. 2. shogun when he looked like he was the top lhw. I would have loved to see wandy and shogun fight in pride. thats just me though, I may be the only guy who feels like wandy is the best ever at 205. there are other guys worthy of consideration as well, it isnt a 2 man question. shogun has time, rampage has time, etc.
Big Chris
I just typed almost the same thing 10-20 mins. ago before I read this but you are right. It’s gotta be hard cause in your brain you know you can do it and have been the best but your body wont respond.
I saw this gif of shogun/Liddel Dana White slaps chuck on his back and Chuck walks face first into the cage. Man that junk was so sad.. Then Chuck was KO not technically buy KNOCKED OUT twice by Rampage and Evans especially Rashad’s fight and 2 or 3 more shots from shogun and he would have been out again. And yes he was out in the Rampage fight he surely went limp only to be awaken by a punch.
IMO if you listen to his speech he is showing early signs of parkinsons…..Only again in my OPINION. I hope he retire’s only time will tell.
Chuck vs Randy IV?
if i was chuck i’d hang ‘em up.
but i’m not.
he should do what the heck he wants.
dana should get a life and stop living vicariously thru ‘his’ fighters. he is trying to inflate his own relationship to liddell by trying to prove he cares the most
So I’ve been thinking about this: Dana accuses Hackleman of exploiting Chuck for personal gain. Isn’t that what EVERY trainer does? Isn’t that what the UFC does? Isn’t that what EVERYONE in EVERY aspect of work does? Isn’t it all about personal gain?
I think there is a difference between “exploiting” and reaching a mutually beneficial agreement.
If a trainer pushes their fighter to continue to fight beyond their competitive years, and that fighter’s long term health suffers while the trainer pads their bank account, that’s “exploiting”, or at least could be seen as “exploiting”.
When a trainer works with a guy and helps them to become a better fighter, and therefore helps them rise through the rankings and become eventual champion during that fighter peak competitive years, that is mutually beneficial.
Likewise if an employer hires an employee at below market value, puts them on Salary, and then forces them to work 60+ hours a week, that could be seen as “exploitation”. While if said employer pays said employee at or just above market rate for the position and has the employee work 40-45 hours a week and offers comp days for over time, that could be considered mutually beneficial.
To me “exploit” has certain negative connotations and I’m very careful about throwing that around in a work type environment where both parties are adults with free will and can therefore make their own decisions about what they determine to be “fair” or “unfair”.
I should have been more specific with my terminology; exploit, to me, does not always need be negative. For example, if you’re real good at MMA, you exploit your skills, ie. use them for your own profit.
One definition of exploit is “to use for profit”, while another defintion is “to use selfishly”. Kinda grey I guess.
I get what you’re saying, I just think Dana was using the negative “to use selfishly” definition.
to a certain extent, there are some managers that actually look out for their fighters best intent instead of screwing them, like i said before I think dana is looking out for chuck by semi-forcing him to retire. I know they are really close friends and I think dana is trying to help chuck see the light. some fighters dont realize they have severly damaged themselves until its too late. chuck is about to go down that road if he takes hackelman’s advice.
chuck should try heavyweight randy couture is doing good there and chuck would destroy randy they should see how he does there
Liddel’s too loyal to Hackleman, should’ve dumped him long ago and wouldn’t have suffered his recent defeats. Hackleman is a joke who calls himself a boxing coach. Liddell is built for the straight jab, and if he’d been trained to use it, wouldn’t have been knocked out by Jackson & Evans, and Liddell could have easily outpointed them both – Liddell is built to use a Lennox Lewis style jab, and true boxong coach would have noticed this and made it the mainstay of his standup